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Let's Talk about Factom's Repeated Lies and "mistakes" - per cryptonaught's request

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  • adam

    @paulsnow @adam, @brighton36 @Junseth

    Please put together a concise list of questions you'd like Chris to answer or accusations you'd like him to provide supporting evidence for.

    Thanks for this opportunity. I'd be happy to provide a list of questions, and I'd be happy to keep it to a small and easy to manage number. I would like a couple of days to do this, since today is going to be very busy, and I'd like to give a reasonable amount of time and effort to do this right.

    That's fine, we waited three months for Chris to post his "evidence" that started this converation back up so we'll hold this until you prepare your questions.

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  • brighton36

    @adam -I demand to be put into a group of skeptical and accurate forum members. If you call that group Liar - and insist on staying out of it, that would be awesome. I'm very much looking forward to pointing at this thread and your complete lack of competency, on the inevitable scandal that will become Factom's. 99% of the people in this forum didn't invest in this, because they recognized it was a terrible place to invest their money. If you want to stake your reputation on Factom, I'm great with that. Please annoint me publically as the guy who schooled you. In fact, I'm giving you 24 hours after Paul Snow replies, to do so.

    @Paul Snow wants me to find a statement where he says the word "Contract" ? @Paul - no one but your bag hodlrs , and Adam Levine (who's probably a bag holdr) are this stupid.

    Here's a reference to Honduras on December 19th

    Here's a reference to Honduras on February 3rd

    Here's Peter Kirby on Stage saying talking about Honduras on March 13th (By the way - his claim that you offer tamper-proof records is false. You offer notarization, which is completely different. This talk was such snake-oil, you're claiming to solve whatever ails anyone.)

    And all of this Honduras talk hit its apex when you announced on the last day of the crowdsale the headline "Honduras to Build Land Title Registry Using Bitcoin Technology". And your defense is that the word "Contract" didn't appear in that headline?

    Oh and, you know. The other two fundraises after this. Oh and you know - the pattern of announcing non-existant relationships

    Adam Levine is definately stupid enough to believe you didn't blatantly mislead your investors. He doesn't know that press releases on contracts don't necessarily include word "contract". I'm sure if this announcement did include the word "contract" Paul Snow would insist that there wasn't a picture of himself signing the contract in the article. I'm not that dumb, and neither is the majority of the Bitcoin community.

    You went into Honduras and gave them the same "We'll cure whatever ails you" pitch you gave the sixteen year olds. They said "I guess" and you left and reported to the world that you sold them Factom, and to invest in your company.

    "INTRODUCING HONESTY TO RECORD KEEPING" my ass.

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  • adam

    Chris, the group is specifically for people who lie to get attention. Paul is going to put together a list of issues and questions that he has answered at your request, and that you have refused to acknowledge, refute or in most cases even respond to.

    If you are unable to provide responses that explain why his answers to your questions and corrects to you are not correct, and you're still unwilling to acknowledge that despite this lack of proof you're continuing to make loud, public claims then you will be added to the Liar group because you'll have demonstrated publicly that you're a liar. So far this thread goes a long way, but it'll only be truly obvious once you respond (or don't) to the answers from Paul Snow that your thread has garnered and which you have largely ignored.

    You can dress it up all you want, NO DONT THROW ME IN THE BRIAR PATCH! but there's no getting out from this mess you've made. If you get the liar tag, it'll be because you've proven publicly that you are simply lying to get attention and make yourself out to be a hero when really you're just a bully looking for easy targets and apparently desperate to make people like you on the internet.

    Paul said he'd get you the questions in a few days so lets reconvene then.

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  • adam

    And by the way, insulting yourself to defuse what i'm saying doesn't work.

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  • brighton36

    I will give no answers to Paul's questions, until I get a liar tag. A token would be preffered, but I'll settle for the tag.

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  • junseth

    @Adam, Factom is an honest project. I can't believe for a second that @brighton36 would say otherwise. I think that if he is unable to produce evidence to the effect of his claims he ought to receive the Liar tag.

    I am extremely upset that he would be so incredibly brazen as to provide 0 evidence while making accusations against a project in this space that is obviously nothing more than a kind old man's attempt at avoiding senility while contributing something so important as the ability of the underserviced to prove that something that exists really, truly exists, even if one has forgotten that it does, indeed exist. It is a better world when we can prove for the low cost of 1/10 of 1 penny that something that exists exists. God bless @paulsnow and the Factom project, and God bless all the wonderful people who gave their money to it.

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  • adam

    Glad we agree @junseth, (although I don't really know anything about Factom, not being invested in it or informed about it) if Chris proves he's a liar as you did he'll get the tag as well. It's not really something to be proud of but you seem like a guy who prefers his own path so what do I know.

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  • junseth

    Right. Glad we sorted that out. I am quite certain that Mr. DeRose will do whatever he can to discredit this amazing notarization project. But Paul's genius consensus mechanism will prevail in the end. Of that I am certain. The premise of the Factom project rests on the idea that people do not trust themselves. @brighton36 is a moron who thinks that one is capable of trusting one's self. What a maroon.

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  • PaulSnow

    @Adam, @brighton36, @junseth

    Here are 6 simple questions:

    1) You cite Factom's talking about developing solutions for Land Titles for countries, and assert we were discussing the Honduras project, even though we do not mention Honduras. What exactly is the ethical problem with discussing use cases that a startup is working to address?

    2) Provide one statement about land titles and/or the Honduras project made by Factom that was a lie. An actual quote please.

    3) You claim we withheld information about Epigraph's role in the Honduras project in order to mislead investors. Were they not given credit in the very first announcement?

    4) We used Koinify to run the token sale, and third parties to assess the development milestones that we must reach to unlock the funds raised by the token sale. Why do you neglect details about the Factom token sale that were designed to avoid the risk of people buying tokens for a protocol that was not delivered?

    5) Factom has delivered the protocol, which is now running. There are 10,000+ anchors in the Bitcoin blockchain. Isn't an operational protocol some indication of performance for those supporting Factom?

    6) The funds raised by Factom have been fairly modest. But we do have a team of developers, and we do our work in Github. Do you have any reason to believe that the funds raised by Factom are not being used to develop the project as it has been defined by our White Paper, the Consensus Paper, and the Factom Data Structure Details document?

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  • Phoenix

    I wrote this before @PaulSnow posted his questions. Nevertheless I'll send this to close some doors for stupid ego-strategies.

    @Adam: I know your suggestion is with good intentions, and totally understandable. But the problem I'm pretty sure of is: It's already proven that this is not about facts. @Brighton36 never was able to discuss his own points. This thread is in fact not about Factom and facts. It's about two guys who are confronted with their own dishonesty. And we see every silly ego-strategy and this won't end with one post of @PaulSnow asking relevant questions and Chris replies or not. He will reply, but he will do it the same way he started the thread and the same way he wrote his posts. I've asked some questions in my last post:

    • Please quote where do they speak of a contract.
    • You say it’s "unequivocal"… you should be able to show what exactly is unequivocal.
    • Please tell me, what’s wrong about fundraising.
    • Please tell me, what’s wrong if a team says what they’re doing?
    • Please tell me, what’s wrong with the article?

    And… let’s try something new:

    • Please be precise
    • Please reply on every(!) question
    • Please use quotes to underline your claims!

    He can't do that, because it's impossible to answer that questions, being precise, quoting sources, and implicate something shady at the same time. Take a look at this post of him: https://letstalkbitcoin.com/forum/post/lets-talk-about-factoms-repeated-lies-and-mistakes-per-cryptonaughts-request?page=8#post-139820

    ...and it's obvious what I want to say.

    And earlier (but today) he said:

    • „there were two more fundraises thereafter during which Factom still advertised that contract as having been secured on its own website.“

    Now he combines his admittion that he can't find anything with "contract" with new accusations and attacks. It's about defending his ego, and that was the reason right from the beginning. It's visible everywhere, and he will go on with that. It's the same with @Junseth. His newest attempt is irony combined with personal attacks... it's desperation because all of their dishonesty is now obvious.

    But they won't ever admit that. It's easy to remove dishonest masks... that was done on page one or at least after Paul Snows corrections. But it's impossible to stop their attacks which they just do to defend their hurting egos. They already have lost much credibility. Now it's just about "not-admitting-that", so they have to move on.

    The problem now is: It's not a lot of work for @PaulSnow to ask questions. He did that several times without getting answer. The problem is to ask questions in a way that it's impossible for Chris to "beat about the bush" (hope that's right? - talking around the facts and being precise).

    What I expect is, that Paul Snows questions will be a new start for some rounds. He will ask precise and they'll reply with implications and talking around in combination with accusations and so on. That's why my suggestion was that @Brighton36 should make this thread more transparent, edit his first post and give a link to Paul Snows corrections. And sure, I knew that he wouldn't want that. I wanted to record exactly that. It's pretty revealing when it comes to the question for what he stands for - and what he fears.

    @Junseth: Read this again: https://letstalkbitcoin.com/forum/post/lets-talk-about-factoms-repeated-lies-and-mistakes-per-cryptonaughts-request?page=5#post-139709

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