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Let's Talk about Factom's Repeated Lies and "mistakes" - per cryptonaught's request

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  • PaulSnow

    @junseth Wow! You guys are pieces of work.

    I'm going to jump in here, and just say one thing so as to correct the record. First off, Chris is right 100%. You can disagree with him. But you'll probably be embarrassed not so long from now.

    Why don't you go through my review of his "timeline", and tell me how any of the errors I identified are not actually errors? And then go through the list of additional milestones I gave that Chris ignored, and tell me how they are not relevant to a reader trying to understand the Factom project?

    But I wanted to very simply point out that the Honduras announcement came on the last day of the fundraise I am fairly certain.

    The token sale ended on May 15 at 10 am CST. I don't know what time on May 15 the article came out, but the overlap was pretty small. There was no decernable impact on the token sale. Addirionally, it was not supposed to be released until the following week.

    But you know all of this.

    But even if it didn't (which I'm pretty sure it did) Paul, you and your Factom-ers did 2 more fundraises under the auspices that the Honduras deal was signed and sealed.

    No we did not. There is no reference (even in that announcement) of a signed and sealed deal. The anouncement clearly states that "The pilot project should be completed by the end of the year, with the goal of eventually putting all of the government's land titles on the blockchain"

    Projects that first do "pilot projects" are by definition provisional. It is the first step to ensure that the tech works. Secondly, words like "should" embody less than 100% certainty. At this point, there is no way a pilot project will be completed before the second quarter of next year.

    Here is the article if you need to refresh your memory

    Also note that your 100% friend said "Somehow, around this point Abhi Dobhal's company "Epigraph" becomes the actual consulting company that Factom takes credit for being. (and for telling its fundraisers, it will be)". I think the implication is that we represented ourselves as doing this project alone, and taking credit for someone else's tech. Then months later (hard to say, how long he is implying, as he has no dates in his "timeline") we reveal Epigraph's role. Well, your supposed "100 percent correct" friend must not have read the announcement, which states:

    • "The company is doing the project with Epigraph, a title software company that uses blockchain technology, also based in Austin."

    You seem to operate with a different understanding of the meaning of "right 100%" than most of us. How many blatant, uncorrected errors can Chris make and remain "right 100%"?

    I'd expect you two to at least correct the most blatant errors, if your complaint is that Factom isn't honest.

    Your explanation for the lies are that not everyone is perfect and you can't expect not to bungle press. But blatant lies are blatant lies. And those aren't bungles, they were deliberately misleading statements that the kind people of LTB are letting you off the hook with because they're likely bag hodlers and beliebers.

    Do you have a statement from Honduras that refutes the existence of the negotiations for the project? When we did make a error about DBS, we were wrong. And DBS issued a statement as well to that effect. If there is no project, why wouldn't Honduras issue a statement?

    Moreover, to call factom coins a license is ridiculous considering the issuer (your company) has to buy them to use your software. The hilarity that is the notion of you having to enter into a contractual relationship with yourself in order to use your software is absurd on its face. So good luck with that.

    I can't even parse your complaint here. All blockchains require transactions to follow their rules. We are building blockchain tech here. There are no contracts... You do have a token though that acts as a license to use the protocol.

    As to Chris's actions reflecting on the Counterparty foundation, I don't think that he or I care at all what you think about our actions. That said, if you come around on Chris's points, you probably will need to come to grips with the possibility that the job of a "Community Director" is to protect members of the community from exigent problems. Factom doesn't pose a threat to counterparty, but it does threaten the integrity of the other so-called decentralized products in the space. And, frankly, when it falls, Counterparty will continue its reputation as having a community that keeps out obvious scammers. We can't keep a perfectly clean nose, but I'm pretty sure that the Counterparty project has done as good a job as can be expected.

    So.... You do view your actions and those of Chris in attacking Factom as a Counterparty project action? Not just something you are doing personally?

    That's kind of interesting.

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  • Phoenix

    @junseth http://cdn.meme.am/instances/54496869.jpg

    If you are not able to discuss the Factom-subject, if you don't want to apologize for spreading lies, you should at least anwer on @PaulSnow :

    • "So.... You do view your actions and those of Chris in attacking Factom as a Counterparty project action? Not just something you are doing personally?"

    If I would be a member of the Counterparty-Community I would like to know that.

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  • Cryptonaut

    @paulsnow

    @junseth

    As to Chris's actions reflecting on the Counterparty foundation, I don't think that he or I care at all what you think about our actions. That said, if you come around on Chris's points, you probably will need to come to grips with the possibility that the job of a "Community Director" is to protect members of the community from exigent problems. Factom doesn't pose a threat to counterparty, but it does threaten the integrity of the other so-called decentralized products in the space. And, frankly, when it falls, Counterparty will continue its reputation as having a community that keeps out obvious scammers. We can't keep a perfectly clean nose, but I'm pretty sure that the Counterparty project has done as good a job as can be expected.

    So.... You do view your actions and those of Chris in attacking Factom as a Counterparty project action? Not just something you are doing personally?

    That's kind of interesting.

    It's worthwhile to note that the whole "community director" thing with the Counterparty Foundation is kind of BS. The Counterparty Foundation is just a internet group, it's not really an official thing (other than the project founders being in it), and frankly I don't think the community is big enough yet to need a "foundation" (actually it doesn't need one at all), let alone three whole community directors. @brighton36 was "elected" to the volunteer and poorly defined position of Community Director via a hacked together blockchain voting system, where XCP holders could vote for 3 out of 4 total self-nominees (take a wild guess who the 4th was.. cough @junseth). Multiple people including myself expressed that the idea was kind of dumb and voting system not very well thought out (a LOT of issues with it actually), but they went ahead and did it. Even though I personally have been heavily involved in a lot of the major projects in Counterparty (LTBC, Tokenly, nearly 50% of all counterparty transactions that have happened to date + more), I had essentially zero influence in that "election" simply because I happened to not have money directly invested in XCP (and not for a lack of wanting to), and I know that was the same case with others such as the FoldingCoin guys, the guys over at CoinDaddy etc... kind of speaks for itself how reasonable of an election that was. Oh and not to mention that both @junseth and @brighton36 were openly advertising that they would buy votes from people (which came directly out of the conversation of why the voting system was bad).

    So yeah, I find it pretty hilarious how much the Community Director position has gone to Chris' head and how he believes he is somehow protecting Counterparty or w/e. It's a complete joke man.

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  • junseth

    Holy shit! I was on the ballot? That's awesome. Can you show me where my name is here? https://blockscan.com/vote/XCPELECTION I guess I just can't read.

    I would refrain from talking about Chris talking about openly purchasing votes. That is a straight up lie. I did that. And I bought a lot of votes. :) The election went exactly as I wanted it to. Why? Because the only reason you even had the intellectual capacity to know that blockchain voting is a bad idea, is because I told you to think that. Pretty consistent with the entire LTB team to outsource their brain.

    "So.... You do view your actions and those of Chris in attacking Factom as a Counterparty project action? Not just something you are doing personally?"

    I'm not entertaining the ridiculous premise of this question.

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  • Cryptonaut

    sorry @junseth your right I keep getting you mixed up with JP.

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  • PaulSnow

    @junseth

    "So.... You do view your actions and those of Chris in attacking Factom as a Counterparty project action? Not just something you are doing personally?"

    I'm not entertaining the ridiculous premise of this question.

    It is what you implied. I quoted you. What is the confusion?

    Or is the "ridiculous premise" the idea that you can answer questions, or correct errors and misstatements? Hilarious how you and Chris can't give straight, correct, and honest answers to unambiguous and fair questions, given the topic.

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  • Cryptonaut

    @junseth I would refrain from talking about Chris talking about openly purchasing votes. That is a straight up lie. I did that. And I bought a lot of votes. :) The election went exactly as I wanted it to. Why? Because the only reason you even had the intellectual capacity to know that blockchain voting is a bad idea, is because I told you to think that. Pretty consistent with the entire LTB team to outsource their brain.

    You really love to believe that everyone gets their ideas from you guys don't you? I distinctly remember Chris offerring to buy votes, and yeah I know you did to (probably why I keep thinking you were on the ballot). Let me guess who you used those votes for...

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  • junseth

    You can check the blockchain! Why don't you go see!

    I used them to make the winners all win about 25%.

    Oh, and you can go back in the Skype records. If Chris said anything it was probably "Junseth is buying votes."

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  • Cryptonaut

    @junseth You can check the blockchain! Why don't you go see!

    I used them to make the winners all win about 25%.

    Oh, and you can go back in the Skype records. If Chris said anything it was probably "Junseth is buying votes."

    Who cares? My point was that the whole election was silly and unneeded, and the whole Community Director thing is stupid and meaningless. Counterparty does not need a community director, let alone 3. We don't even need a foundation, it just gives you guys a nice cozy place to stick your head up your ass. Plus I have seen you mention a few times "herp derp I'm a lifetime foundation member"... so? Counterparty is not even 2 years old, a lifetime membership to an internet group is completely meaningless.

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  • junseth

    @cryptonaut

    @junseth You can check the blockchain! Why don't you go see!

    I used them to make the winners all win about 25%.

    Oh, and you can go back in the Skype records. If Chris said anything it was probably "Junseth is buying votes."

    Who cares? My point was that the whole election was silly and unneeded, and the whole Community Director thing is stupid and meaningless. Counterparty does not need a community director, let alone 3. We don't even need a foundation, it just gives you guys a nice cozy place to stick your head up your ass. Plus I have seen you mention a few times "herp derp I'm a lifetime foundation member"... so? Counterparty is not even 2 years old, a lifetime membership to an internet group is completely meaningless.

    Good, so you get it.

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