The LTB Network Forum


Upcoming Bitcoin Hard Fork & /r/bitcoin censorship

Back to Bitcoin & Beyond

Jump to bottom

Comments

  • IvanB

    @adam

    Question:

    Should LTB put together one or a series of Equal-Time presentations with the Pro-XT and Pro-Classic camps to try and convince "the community" to make the change, or not?

    I think a lot of people would be interested in presentations such as these. However, I imagine that many bitcoin core devs would not want to participate as they've already made it clear that they aren't interested in what users/miners/merchants think. More to the point, they try to 'call Gavin & Hearn out' for putting their views on reddit, twitter and other public forums. It sort of feels like they know they've lost the support of the community on larger blocks and as a result are trying to avoid further involvement that takes the end user wishes into account.

    I've got doubts about participation from the 'classic' camp, but I could always be wrong.

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • dmnyc

    @tatianamoroz Hey guys, I would like to know what the hell is this fork thing? ... Does this mean Bitcoin's price will go down?

    In the short term, it looks like the price may drop further, though for the moment it seems to have stabilized. Basically, there is a public argument underway about if, how, and when the size of blocks should be raised to allow more transactions to be included. Since we are essentially unable to influence the outcome directly, the best we can do is voice our opinions and hope that sanity prevails and a consensus is found soon. Markets are skittish and large holders may try to manipulate the price to their own advantage. In the long run, though, I believe we will look back on this event the way we do at other problems bitcoin has faced, and we will see that is has become stronger as a result.

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • IvanB

    @edgelogic

    From my point of view.. the most serious issue is the one consistently highlighted by Adam Back and by the person that posted that message claiming to be Satoshi, whether it was him or not.. The issue is 'consensus'.. To disregard it, is cavalier and fool hardy, and so one has to question why?

    Fools rush in where angels fear to tread..

    Yes, I am concerned.

    Requiring consensus among core devs really turns into "just about any minority has full veto power" over the direction of bitcoin development. I understand and respect the concern and the feeling that things are being rushed. Where we disagree is about consensus. In my opinion, if bitcoin is going to succeed it will need to do so in situations where devs agree as well as situations where they don't. That's what anti-fragile is all about - surviving hard conditions and changes, not just the good times.

    Permalink
    1 like
  • MaxEntropy

    Github - Code Change Widget

    The code watch dog idea might be a good idea. Easily observing the changes to Github repositories could invigorate debate on LetsTalk...

    A LetsTalkBitcoin installed Github widget could provide an additional source of information to the forums.

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • PTheD

    @adam

    Question:

    Should LTB put together one or a series of Equal-Time presentations with the Pro-XT and Pro-Classic camps to try and convince "the community" to make the change, or not?

    Oh my God yes.

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • adam

    @maxentropy Github - Code Change Widget

    The code watch dog idea might be a good idea. Easily observing the changes to Github repositories could invigorate debate on LetsTalk...

    A LetsTalkBitcoin installed Github widget could provide an additional source of information to the forums.

    I like this idea but the core of the issue is we need people who understand and can keep up with what is being done. It's not just github but mailing lists as well

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • JayeK

    I'm in agreement that we need to scale to the larger block size, but does anyone else feel the fork is a bad idea and should be implemented in core. Not so much an issue with the tech, but the general public perception and confidence in Bitcoin in as a whole, regardless if it's Core/XT. I think the way this has played out is bad for Bitcoin.

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • cherapple

    Eli's Reply

    First, let’s count our blessings. It’s good that there is no “official” organization that can control Bitcoin. Such an organization would be subject to political pressure and ultimately to political capture. Let’s be grateful that Bitcoin is so capture-resistant.

    Second, hard forks allow controversial decisions about the direction of Bitcoin to be made by the market, not by particular developers. They are the method by which we decentralize Bitcoin governance. A policy of never allowing hard forks is tantamount to a policy of letting core developers, not the market, choose how Bitcoin will behave. Consequently, I am unsympathetic to the bitcoin.org policy of forbidding controversial hard forks.

    This is how the system is supposed to work. If the big-blockists are able to persuade the majority of miners, exchanges, and users that bigger blocks are better, they will win in the end. If not, the small-blockists will win. Either way, in the end, the shorter chain will be abandoned eventually, and there will be only one Bitcoin again.

    The community has several more months during which to debate this issue, since the fork will not occur before 2016. In the meantime, we should focus on improving the quality of arguments and communication so that the fork will be resolved in an informed manner.

    All the best,

    Eli Dourado

    Director, Technology Policy Program

    Mercatus Center

    George Mason University

    This was really helpful for me in understanding how Bitcoin consensus works. Thanks for seeking out and sharing the information, @adam. It shows that conversations like this are absolutely necessary to the future of Bitcoin, even if it all seems like a bunch of craziness sometimes.

    This is how the system is supposed to work. If the big-blockists are able to persuade the majority of miners, exchanges, and users

    I'm still left wondering, however (as someone who has less of a technical understanding): Where are the nodes in the equation? They are unpaid, run by volunteers, decreasing in number all the time, and not discussed on the same level that miners are discussed. Are they less important, or "becoming less important as it becomes easier to connect to the network" (as one person recently explained to me)? Do they matter in these block-size, hard-fork, consensus decisions?

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • adam

    @jayek I'm in agreement that we need to scale to the larger block size, but does anyone else feel the fork is a bad idea and should be implemented in core. Not so much an issue with the tech, but the general public perception and confidence in Bitcoin in as a whole, regardless if it's Core/XT. I think the way this has played out is bad for Bitcoin.

    You have described the position it sounds like Gavin/Mike found themselves in, thinking larger block sizes are important and wanting to do it through core but being unable to because any developer with commit access has veto power. This is the core of the issue it seems and what led us to where we are now.

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • shmadz

    @adam

    Question:

    Should LTB put together one or a series of Equal-Time presentations with the Pro-XT and Pro-Classic camps to try and convince "the community" to make the change, or not?

    Why not? Can't hurt.

    Actually, I'd rather listen to an interview with Garzik vs Hearn similar to the earlier episode with Gavin and Peter Todd. =D

    Permalink
    0 likes
Jump to top

Post Reply

Please Login to post a reply to this thread.

© Copyright 2013–2016 The LTB Network. All rights reserved .