The LTB Network Forum

Genocide

Back to General

Comments

• CrimsonRoze

  

  Offline
  Posts: 295
  Location: Göteborg, Sweden

  @cmason Okay, let me ask you if you take this position consistently. Did you support the blanket boycott (and sanctions) against Apartheid South Africa? Do you reject that campaign for the same reasons?

  I think apartheid was ended while I was still a young boy so I have no context to this issue, I'm afraid.

  Do you also reject the sanctions against Iran, North Korea and Cuba?

  Yes, in varying degrees. Note that rejecting a boycott that is against an idea or politic, does not endorse that idea of politic.

  Remember, the point of the boycott against Israel is not to punish anyone, it is to provide real pressure, without the use of weapons, to compel change, as it was with South Africa.

  Targeting the few parties in these areas that are willing to go out of the monetary systems that support the conflicts you wish to put pressure against by rejecting the trade they need to remain free and independent is a rather counter-productive way to achieve the goals that you seem to desire.

  Posted on August 6, 2014 at 1:33 PM
  Last Edited: August 6, 2014 at 1:41 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• cmason

  

  Offline
  Posts: 119

  @crimsonroze

  @cmason Okay, let me ask you if you take this position consistently. Did you support the blanket boycott (and sanctions) against Apartheid South Africa? Do you reject that campaign for the same reasons?

  I think apartheid was ended while I was still a young boy. I have no context to this issue, I'm afraid.

  Alright, put yourself in their place. Would you have supported the boycott in the eighties or not? Do you think it was a righteous and noble effort, or a wrong and misguided one?

  Do you also reject the sanctions against Iran, North Korea and Cuba?

  Yes, in varying degrees. Note that rejecting a boycott that is against an idea or politic, does not endorse that idea of politic.

  Remember, the point of the boycott against Israel is not to punish anyone, it is to provide real pressure, without the use of weapons, to compel change, as it was with South Africa.

  Targeting the few parties in these areas that are willing to go out of the monetary systems that support the conflicts you wish to put pressure against by rejecting the trade they need to remain free and independent is a rather counter-productive way to achieve the goals that you seem to desire.

  Let me be sure I understand you. Are you arguing that a boycott against Israel might hurt Palestinians? This is certainly possible, in fact likely, but this is a decision they get to make, not us. They are fighting for freedom and equal rights, and this has a cost. They well know it. It is patriarchal and condescending for us in the West to decide what's best for "them".

  Posted on August 6, 2014 at 1:47 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• sbux

  

  Offline
  Posts: 24

  I love Israel and Jews so I will Boycott this thread

  Posted on August 6, 2014 at 1:48 PM
  Permalink
  1 like
• cmason

  

  Offline
  Posts: 119

  @sbux I love Israel and Jews so I will Boycott this thread

  I love Jewish people too. Thanks for supporting the concept of boycott.

  Posted on August 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM
  Permalink
  1 like
• CrimsonRoze

  

  Offline
  Posts: 295
  Location: Göteborg, Sweden

  @cmason

  @crimsonroze

  Targeting the few parties in these areas that are willing to go out of the monetary systems that support the conflicts you wish to put pressure against by rejecting the trade they need to remain free and independent is a rather counter-productive way to achieve the goals that you seem to desire.

  Let me be sure I understand you. Are you arguing that a boycott against Israel might hurt Palestinians?

  No, I am arguing that a boycott that is targeted specifically at bitcoin accepting businesses inside an entity that you percieve as evil or morally injust where the actions you dismay are fueled and powered by monetary systems and regimes over the world is counterproductive to your ideal. You should judge each bitcoin accepting business in Palestine based on the individual business or owners and decide if their politics align with yours or not. If they do not align you should not do business with them regardless of their preferred payment methods but if their politics align with yours you should embrace them because of their payment methods as they strive to stay outside of the systems that fund the conflict you wish to put an end to.

  Posted on August 6, 2014 at 2:05 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• cmason

  

  Offline
  Posts: 119

  @crimsonroze ... No, I am arguing that a boycott that is targeted specifically at bitcoin accepting businesses inside an entity that you percieve as evil or morally injust where the actions you dismay are fueled and powered by monetary systems and regimes over the world is counterproductive to your ideal. You should judge each bitcoin accepting business in Palestine based on the individual business or owners and decide if their politics align with yours or not. If they do not align you should not do business with them regardless of their preferred payment methods but if their politics align with yours you should embrace them because of their payment methods as they strive to stay outside of the systems that fund the conflict you wish to put an end to.

  Okay, thanks, I misunderstood your point. I still disagree, however. One could easily find many good, even progressive, South Africans during the eighties, but we still refused to trade with them. And you know what? It worked. Businessmen in South Africa felt the pinch and started saying to the government, you know, we really need to address this Apartheid thing, it is hurting our business. And, in the end, something that had previously been unimaginable (one man, one vote) suddenly become more acceptable, and eventually inevitable. (sorry for the sexist language, that's how it was phrased at the time.)

  Posted on August 6, 2014 at 2:16 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• CrimsonRoze

  

  Offline
  Posts: 295
  Location: Göteborg, Sweden

  @cmason

  @crimsonroze ... No, I am arguing that a boycott that is targeted specifically at bitcoin accepting businesses inside an entity that you percieve as evil or morally injust where the actions you dismay are fueled and powered by monetary systems and regimes over the world is counterproductive to your ideal. You should judge each bitcoin accepting business in Palestine based on the individual business or owners and decide if their politics align with yours or not. If they do not align you should not do business with them regardless of their preferred payment methods but if their politics align with yours you should embrace them because of their payment methods as they strive to stay outside of the systems that fund the conflict you wish to put an end to.

  Okay, thanks, I misunderstood your point. I still disagree, however. One could easily find many good, even progressive, South Africans during the eighties, but we still refused to trade with them. And you know what? It worked.

  You're referencing previous success in a given context and apply it as if it was future success in a different, albeit similar, context. What works once is not guaranteed to work twice. I'm not saying it won't work, I'm saying it's not guaranteed.

  Either way I wish you good luck promoting action, even though I won't participate against a boycott against bitcoin accepting businesses in Palestine. I do not endorse or promote the actions taken by leaders, activits and fanatics who hold different political ideas compared to mine, nor do I endorse anything that is based on, or derives it's power from, violence.

  If you can bring about social change that is the betterment for mankind, then be my guest and invest your time and effort. If you can prove to me, without a shed of doubt, that your action helped bring about a change I view as positive, then I will thank you.

  I will not, however, justify means by the ends they provide.

  Posted on August 6, 2014 at 2:29 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• cmason

  

  Offline
  Posts: 119

  @crimsonroze ...

  You're referencing previous success in a given context and apply it as if it was future success in a different, albeit similar, context. What works once is not guaranteed to work twice. I'm not saying it won't work, I'm saying it's not guaranteed.

  Either way I wish you good luck promoting action, even though I won't participate against a boycott against bitcoin accepting businesses in Palestine. I do not endorse or promote the actions taken by leaders, activits and fanatics who hold different political ideas compared to mine, nor do I endorse anything that is based on, or derives it's power from, violence.

  If you can bring about social change that is the betterment for mankind, then be my guest and invest your time and effort. If you can prove to me, without a shed of doubt, that your action helped bring about a change I view as positive, then I will thank you.

  I will not, however, justify means by the ends they provide.

  I'm sure my own action will not make a difference, but I hope that global collective action will, and I believe this will only grow after recent events. I hope, not too far in the future, to have the evidence you seek. In any event, thanks for engaging and discussing this topic with me. I appreciate it.

  Posted on August 6, 2014 at 2:37 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• JayeK

  

  Offline
  Posts: 378
  Location: Canada

  I found this VICE piece rather surprising. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PLIWZj5Buk

  Posted on August 6, 2014 at 5:14 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• jamesmm

  

  Offline
  Posts: 131
  Location: Texas, Block #301130

  There's so much I'd like to say about this, I just don't know where to start, whatever I say is not going to come out right and won't help any situation.

  It makes me very sad, very ashamed. The crypto community wants to change the world, but it seems they all totally ignore this tragedy (understatement). It's Not their responsibility, but.. idk

  I just don't have the right words to express this. It's very bad.

  Yes, I might be a little bias, but right is right and wrong is defiantly wrong.

  I want to thank @cmason for having the guts to stand up and speak out, very awesome man!

  Posted on August 9, 2014 at 10:59 AM
  Permalink
  0 likes

Post Reply