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LTB editing should be de-centralised

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joey.lucia

I have been trying to get some content published for about a month now and I can say publishing something on Let's Talk Bitcoin is harder than it was to get my thesis published by an academic publishing house. To begin with I haven't heard anything from my editor, then I get one message saying my article (which I was trying to publish as three separate pieces) needs to be longer. So I extended it and sent it back for approval. Then I hear nothing again for a very long time, until I get a new editor, with that new person it has been a constant back and forth, but nothing ever got done. I think editing on Let's Talk Bitcoin should be de-centralised. It would be better to let the LTB community vote which articles they like.

Have you been trying to get stuff published on here? What was your experience like?

4 likes
  • adam

    @joeylucia I have been trying to get some content published for about a month now and I can say publishing something on Let's Talk Bitcoin is harder than it was to get my thesis published by an academic publishing house. To begin with I haven't heard anything from my editor, then I get one message saying my article (which I was trying to publish as three separate pieces) needs to be longer. So I extended it and sent it back for approval. Then I hear nothing again for a very long time, until I get a new editor, with that new person it has been a constant back and forth, but nothing ever got done. I think editing on Let's Talk Bitcoin should be de-centralised. It would be better to let the LTB community vote which articles they like.

    Have you been trying to get stuff published on here? What was your experience like?

    You are of course completely right, we launched with an incomplete system and opened it up far too early. We were immediately overwhelmed by submissions and ad-hoc systems were put in place managed by volunteers who have done a valiant job but ultimately experiences like yours are occurring just as often as the positive experiences.

    Here's a mockup @matt is developing of what the new user profile pages will look like (note the office hours clocks) http://i.imgur.com/3z6DNDd.jpg

    Here's the original request I gave to Nick for the new decentralized editorial system that should be out by october.


    The current "Blog" menu has Blog Settings, Categories, Posts, Post Metadata and Disqus Comments

    I would like it split into two menus, and several new areas added

    Blog Settings, Categories, Post Metadata and Comments should be in a new "Front Page Admin" menu

    Create a new Category: Editorial

    Write - The text editor, you and format your post (ideally with markup, inkpad.io and that mirroring style that shows a live preview of your markup

    Edit Request - A new status, it then shows you a list of "editors" who are not self-flagged as unavailable. The blogger selects one or two of them manually or clicks "editors choice" which flags the first available. With multiple editors being flagged it would be better to flag one first (the most recently active) and wait for an accept/deny before flagging the other. Once a request has been accepted, the editor now sees the piece in their "Write" list and it is editable by them.

    Once the editor is done they change the status to Pending Review which pings the author again to check the work and confirm the changes. It would be awesome to show them a side-by-side or red-highlight the changes made, otherwise this will be a tedious step.

    Proof-Read Request - Edits can go back and forth as above until both parties agree. Once they agree the page is moved to Proof-Read mode where any opted-in proof-reader can be requested and sent the non-public on-blog preview version of the article.

    At the top of the page they are reminded of the publishing guidelines for LTB, and they read through the piece. They do not have edit abilities but they have a text box where they can write as much as they want with suggestions, thoughts or comments which are then sent to the author or perhaps just visible in the feedback section at the bottom of the "write" page for the article.

    Along with the comments they check a box that says "This article complies with the publishing standards of LTB and is ready for the front page". Ideally each piece would be vetted by several proof-readers.

    Submissions The last step of the process, only articles with the status "Ready for Publishing" appear in this list.They should be viewable from the list as-draft to let curators quickly assess the merits of a piece.

    Moving a piece into Ready for Publishing which flags the next available editorial curator and the managing editor not opted out. These are submissions, not a a guaranteed publishing workflow and so pieces that are not desired are essentially just left on the vine - Each individual curator should have the ability to remove any piece from their viewpoint without it being removed from everybody elses. Managing editors should have the ability to completely remove a piece of content from the workflow.

    Once a piece is selected for publishing, it should be assigned to a "publish slot" - A "slot" is a timed content release where the content changes from day to day but the schedule does not. I would like to start with five such publishing opportunities per day spaced approx 3hrs apart starting at 6am, but the interface you create should eventually let us trivially expand this. It would be ideal to have a public-page of this page automatically generate so our editorial calender is transparent (as we get close to releasing a piece of content).

    The Curator also checks a button that says "I affirm this meets the LTBn publishing guidelines" when they submit it for scheduling, and unless there is a conflict the piece is committed for the publishing slot, and the author is pinged with the update.

    Regarding other Blogs The Front Page is going to become just that, a front page - Individual stories are going to be posted to specific blogs that operate within the LTBn ecosystem and the managing editor or front page curator will have access to a "Front Page" check box that if checked puts the piece's image/content card on the front page and opts-them in for the Proof of Publishing disbursement.

    Regarding User Compensation I have it in my head it should not be too hard to make it so when you send an invite to an editor or a proofreader that we can let the offerer also offer a fixed LTBc bonus or a specific % of the LTBc generated by the piece which the platform could then help automate via the weekly disbursement and devons forward-looking-accounting idea. I think people will use the system even without, but ideally any message or action could be accompanied by either LTBc offered if the other accepts or commit them to a user defined share for whatever is earned by that particular piece of content.

    Regarding Availability Users should be able to opt-in from their dashboard to be a proof-reader, or an editor. They should be able to easily set what hours they would like to fill each role, and be encouraged to set office hours. For example, someone might want to be a proof-reader during their work hours, but an editor for a two hour period after they get home from work.

    Users looking for help ASAP should be able to flag "first available" which just sets up the offered amount or split to whomever first claims the right.

    Regarding Better Decision Making Ideally each user and proof-reader would be able to put a little description of their style AND have some general statistics available about them. To start, average response time from request to first edit returned to the author. Also their % of pieces which they edit, that are submitted to blogs that make it onto a blog. Also their % of pieces which they edit that are submitted, make it onto a blog and also make it onto the front page of LTBc and thus earn LTBc.

    The same would also be true for writers, what their % is at those various things so an editor can make an informed decision.

    Proof reader stats would be average response time from request to feedback + affirmation. It should also give an average number of words per feedback, but probably not display average affirmation as that would help people farm approval. Blog Curators would have their % of front page posts displayed, which should generate an average expected weekly LTBc revenue based on the schedule and their expected portion of it.

    All users will have "Error rate" which is essentially where they affirm something is ready but it is later found to not be ready and has to be corrected there or kicked back.

    Regarding Responsibility

    Every step of the way both parties need to be in agreement, if an editor edits a piece and the writer rejects it the draft the editor generated is lost (not available to the author) and no payment is made or owed. The dispute is noted in both of their records and statistics.

    Regarding Decentralized Mediation We can offer a mediation flag button that charges a mediator defined LTBc fee and brings in another party to make the judgement and determine if the payment is due.

    This could be available to community members with LTBc balances above certain amounts which makes them trusted. Once they achieve the designated qualifiers, they have a "Available as Mediator" box available which lets them set hours, describe their style, etc.

    The deal would be that each side submits a written argument which they can both see and the mediator can see, the mediator responds to each with questions, each has an opportunity to respond and the mediator makes the judgement which can be binary or split-the-baby.

    Either party can pay the mediation fee or they can split it, we don't care - it just needs to get paid at whatever level the participants want or can afford.

    Permalink
    5 likes
  • Matt

    @joeylucia I have been trying to get some content published for about a month now and I can say publishing something on Let's Talk Bitcoin is harder than it was to get my thesis published by an academic publishing house. To begin with I haven't heard anything from my editor, then I get one message saying my article (which I was trying to publish as three separate pieces) needs to be longer. So I extended it and sent it back for approval. Then I hear nothing again for a very long time, until I get a new editor, with that new person it has been a constant back and forth, but nothing ever got done. I think editing on Let's Talk Bitcoin should be de-centralised. It would be better to let the LTB community vote which articles they like.

    Have you been trying to get stuff published on here? What was your experience like?

    As @adam stated we're working hard to improve the experience as soon as possible so hang tight!

    Btw way that's a lot of Matts in there. lol

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • joey.lucia

    @adam

    @joeylucia I have been trying to get some content published for about a month now and I can say publishing something on Let's Talk Bitcoin is harder than it was to get my thesis published by an academic publishing house. To begin with I haven't heard anything from my editor, then I get one message saying my article (which I was trying to publish as three separate pieces) needs to be longer. So I extended it and sent it back for approval. Then I hear nothing again for a very long time, until I get a new editor, with that new person it has been a constant back and forth, but nothing ever got done. I think editing on Let's Talk Bitcoin should be de-centralised. It would be better to let the LTB community vote which articles they like.

    Have you been trying to get stuff published on here? What was your experience like?

    You are of course completely right, we launched with an incomplete system and opened it up far too early. We were immediately overwhelmed by submissions and ad-hoc systems were put in place managed by volunteers who have done a valiant job but ultimately experiences like yours are occurring just as often as the positive experiences.

    Here's the original request I gave to Nick for the new decentralized editorial system that should be out by october.


    The current "Blog" menu has Blog Settings, Categories, Posts, Post Metadata and Disqus Comments

    I would like it split into two menus, and several new areas added

    Blog Settings, Categories, Post Metadata and Comments should be in a new "Front Page Admin" menu

    Create a new Category: Editorial

    Write - The text editor, you and format your post (ideally with markup, inkpad.io and that mirroring style that shows a live preview of your markup

    Edit Request - A new status, it then shows you a list of "editors" who are not self-flagged as unavailable. The blogger selects one or two of them manually or clicks "editors choice" which flags the first available. With multiple editors being flagged it would be better to flag one first (the most recently active) and wait for an accept/deny before flagging the other. Once a request has been accepted, the editor now sees the piece in their "Write" list and it is editable by them.

    Once the editor is done they change the status to Pending Review which pings the author again to check the work and confirm the changes. It would be awesome to show them a side-by-side or red-highlight the changes made, otherwise this will be a tedious step.

    Proof-Read Request - Edits can go back and forth as above until both parties agree. Once they agree the page is moved to Proof-Read mode where any opted-in proof-reader can be requested and sent the non-public on-blog preview version of the article.

    At the top of the page they are reminded of the publishing guidelines for LTB, and they read through the piece. They do not have edit abilities but they have a text box where they can write as much as they want with suggestions, thoughts or comments which are then sent to the author or perhaps just visible in the feedback section at the bottom of the "write" page for the article.

    Along with the comments they check a box that says "This article complies with the publishing standards of LTB and is ready for the front page". Ideally each piece would be vetted by several proof-readers.

    Submissions The last step of the process, only articles with the status "Ready for Publishing" appear in this list.They should be viewable from the list as-draft to let curators quickly assess the merits of a piece.

    Moving a piece into Ready for Publishing which flags the next available editorial curator and the managing editor not opted out. These are submissions, not a a guaranteed publishing workflow and so pieces that are not desired are essentially just left on the vine - Each individual curator should have the ability to remove any piece from their viewpoint without it being removed from everybody elses. Managing editors should have the ability to completely remove a piece of content from the workflow.

    Once a piece is selected for publishing, it should be assigned to a "publish slot" - A "slot" is a timed content release where the content changes from day to day but the schedule does not. I would like to start with five such publishing opportunities per day spaced approx 3hrs apart starting at 6am, but the interface you create should eventually let us trivially expand this. It would be ideal to have a public-page of this page automatically generate so our editorial calender is transparent (as we get close to releasing a piece of content).

    The Curator also checks a button that says "I affirm this meets the LTBn publishing guidelines" when they submit it for scheduling, and unless there is a conflict the piece is committed for the publishing slot, and the author is pinged with the update.

    Regarding other Blogs The Front Page is going to become just that, a front page - Individual stories are going to be posted to specific blogs that operate within the LTBn ecosystem and the managing editor or front page curator will have access to a "Front Page" check box that if checked puts the piece's image/content card on the front page and opts-them in for the Proof of Publishing disbursement.

    Regarding User Compensation I have it in my head it should not be too hard to make it so when you send an invite to an editor or a proofreader that we can let the offerer also offer a fixed LTBc bonus or a specific % of the LTBc generated by the piece which the platform could then help automate via the weekly disbursement and devons forward-looking-accounting idea. I think people will use the system even without, but ideally any message or action could be accompanied by either LTBc offered if the other accepts or commit them to a user defined share for whatever is earned by that particular piece of content.

    Regarding Availability Users should be able to opt-in from their dashboard to be a proof-reader, or an editor. They should be able to easily set what hours they would like to fill each role, and be encouraged to set office hours. For example, someone might want to be a proof-reader during their work hours, but an editor for a two hour period after they get home from work.

    Users looking for help ASAP should be able to flag "first available" which just sets up the offered amount or split to whomever first claims the right.

    Regarding Better Decision Making Ideally each user and proof-reader would be able to put a little description of their style AND have some general statistics available about them. To start, average response time from request to first edit returned to the author. Also their % of pieces which they edit, that are submitted to blogs that make it onto a blog. Also their % of pieces which they edit that are submitted, make it onto a blog and also make it onto the front page of LTBc and thus earn LTBc.

    The same would also be true for writers, what their % is at those various things so an editor can make an informed decision.

    Proof reader stats would be average response time from request to feedback + affirmation. It should also give an average number of words per feedback, but probably not display average affirmation as that would help people farm approval. Blog Curators would have their % of front page posts displayed, which should generate an average expected weekly LTBc revenue based on the schedule and their expected portion of it.

    All users will have "Error rate" which is essentially where they affirm something is ready but it is later found to not be ready and has to be corrected there or kicked back.

    Regarding Responsibility

    Every step of the way both parties need to be in agreement, if an editor edits a piece and the writer rejects it the draft the editor generated is lost (not available to the author) and no payment is made or owed. The dispute is noted in both of their records and statistics.

    Regarding Decentralized Mediation We can offer a mediation flag button that charges a mediator defined LTBc fee and brings in another party to make the judgement and determine if the payment is due.

    This could be available to community members with LTBc balances above certain amounts which makes them trusted. Once they achieve the designated qualifiers, they have a "Available as Mediator" box available which lets them set hours, describe their style, etc.

    The deal would be that each side submits a written argument which they can both see and the mediator can see, the mediator responds to each with questions, each has an opportunity to respond and the mediator makes the judgement which can be binary or split-the-baby.

    Either party can pay the mediation fee or they can split it, we don't care - it just needs to get paid at whatever level the participants want or can afford.

    Hi Adam,

    Thanks for the quick reply. The new system you are planning looks great. Until it is in place, if you need any extra editors to help with the current load of articles, I would be happy to assist. I am a published author and have written a book, several articles and annotations and I have a Masters Degree in media. I am working as a copywriter and editing is part of my daily routine. Here is the link to my original application as an editor: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/forum/post/submissions-editors-wanted5000ltbc-per-column?page=2#post-5528

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    1 like
  • adam

    @joeylucia

    Thank you for your offer, I've delegated this part of the workflow to @rotalumis, I believe he's back now or soon (he was on a brief vacation).

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    0 likes
  • rotalumis

    [DUPLICATE POST

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  • rotalumis

    [DUPLICATE POST]

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  • rotalumis

    @adam

    @joeylucia

    Thank you for your offer, I've delegated this part of the workflow to @rotalumis, I believe he's back now or soon (he was on a brief vacation).

    That's right, Joey. @cherapple and I are working through the list of applicants. Thing is it takes a lot of time to test and train new editors, so we have to do it in stages.

    In the meantime, keep in mind any feedback you get on your writing, as it will be helpful for when you're editing too.

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    0 likes
  • rotalumis

    @joeylucia (cc @adam @cherapple )

    I have just seen your OP and I have to say it is most unfair.

    First of all, please bear in mind that taking on new editors and decentralizing editing is precisely why things move at a slower pace. Of the eight editors I took on as a first batch, only two were active last week, which is a bummer when you consider it takes way more time to get new editors started than to just do the editing yourself.

    That is not the reason I said you're being unfair, though.

    On July 18, Mike Roncone added your post to the editing Trello board. (The same day you uploaded it)

    On July 19, I wrote to you in the editors' communication thread to say " it seems like you only have a short intro pasted in there."

    What you resubmitted was no different. Still just an intro, just a little longer at around 600 words, if I recall correctly. Many people do that. They just make a couple of quick changes and resubmit and hope their article goes through. I frankly don't have the time (or inclination) to reply in those cases.

    On August 9 Cheryl contacted you on her own initiative to find out where you stood with your article, and you replied that you had expanded it and would publish the rest in a second part.

    On August 12, Cheryl reported that she edited the first part extensively and discussed it with you. She told me that it was still an introduction, and wanted to run it past me.

    Your article is indeed longer, but in my opinion it is still an intro that lacks substance. Instead of adding more content and starting to talk about your week, you padded it out. What the piece boils down to is:

    "My husband and I decided to try and live on bitcoin for a week in our hometown, so we bought some BTC (so as not to tap into our savings). Then we checked reddit for places to spend it. /r/melbourne were jerks. /r/bitcoin were cool. We also looked up Coinmap and tried a couple of test transactions to prepare for the big week."

    That's probably not very interesting, compared to what the rest of your week on bitcoin must have been like. If it took you 1000+ words to say that (instead of the first couple of paragraphs), I have no idea how you plan to write about your whole week's experience in the last two parts.

    I'm afraid you probably ought to think a bit about writing concisely and making every word pull its weight before you can get started with editing, Joey. I'm sorry to have to be so matter-of-fact about it.

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    2 likes
  • joey.lucia

    When I first submitted my article you asked me to take a look at it and ensure it is of article length. There were no further instructions or notes on how to 'improve' my article. I understand that you are busy, but it would be useful to give writers some directions. It wasn't until yesterday that Cheryl, for the first time, mentioned that my piece is too much of an introduction, rather than a standalone article. I tried to rewrite it and apparently you are of the opinion that I still missed the point, as you so eloquently described above and I quote:

    What the piece boils down to is:

    "My husband and I decided to try and live on bitcoin for a week in our hometown, so we bought some BTC (so as not to tap into our savings). Then we checked reddit for places to spend it. /r/melbourne were jerks. /r/bitcoin were cool. We also looked up Coinmap and tried a couple of test transactions to prepare for the big week."

    End of quote.

    I have indeed described my preparation process and I do find the details an important part of the entire piece. I did intend this blog post to be written in the style of a personal journal entry. If you think the style of my writing is inappropriate, I would happily rewrite it, as per your instructions, if you can find the time to give me some useful critique, rather than just to criticise.

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    2 likes
  • cherapple

    @joeylucia @rotalumis @adam

    Hi Joey,

    Decentralization means that publishing is a negotiation between writers and editors until both are happy with the content.

    If you don't understand why your work is not being published and you want more information than you're receiving, please ask more questions. You have asked few. Most of the time, your response to my questions has been, "Ok, it's ready to publish." That decision is a two-way street. Both the author and the editorial department are responsible for the content that the LTB network publishes. If your piece isn't getting published, it's up to you to find out why, and do the work of meeting LTB's relatively relaxed editorial standards.

    In the meantime, as Andrew said, we have few active editors, we have authors who are producing complete content, and we have articles that are indeed ready for publishing. You are welcome to seek the help of an editor at any time via the following thread:

    http://letstalkbitcoin.com/forum/post/writers-need-editing-help-editors-want-to-earn-some-coin

    Cheryl

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