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Is LTBcoin jumping the gun??

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eddie

I asked Adam in one of the meetups if counter party is ready for LTBcoin. His answer was no. However, he noted that with testing, country party would work as a host for LTBcoin. After listening to episode 99, I couldn't help think that sidechains are the best way forward. Everyone interested in starting a token based system is wondering the same thing. Basically, people are wondering if etherium, protoshares, nxt, coloured coins, master coins, ect are the best way to create a metacoin. Is Counter Party the right choice for LTBcoin or is it too early to tell?

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  • rotalumis

    Great question, eddie. The short answer (according to my understanding) is that it doesn't matter right now, for two main reasons. 
    First, because an asset like LTBcoin can be migrated at a later stage to a different system when the technology becomes available. I'm grossly simplifying here, but it's a bit like moving your digital photo from CDs, to DVDs, to SSD media.You change the underlying storage and the protocol you use to access and handle your data, but your photos are independent of that. In the same way, a public ledger that keeps track of which addresses holds what assets is ultimately data and independent of how it is stored.
    The second reason is that services like Counterparty and Mastercoin could also choose to migrate to a sidechain as described in the episode if it becomes feasible to do so. Again, this is possible because these systems are really just data and protocols to handle that data. In such a case, they would probably be able to retain their native currency if necessary and, while that would be less efficient than using Bitcoin, there could be a good reason to do this that I'll cover in a minute.
    Should Counterparty, Mastercoin, etc. adopt Bitcoin on their own sidechains as their currency, XCP, MSC and so on would probably become shares in their respective systems.  Owners of XCP, MSC and so on would receive dividends in Bitcoin from  transaction fees on these sidechains, as well as from any fees levied on bitcoins moving in and of out of the sidechains from the main Bitcoin blockchain. This means that you could even have a scenario with an exchange rate between, say, Counterparty bitcoins and Bitcoin bitcoins, which will depend on the relative demand of each and the cost of converting one to the other.

    The most obvious downside to this second scenario is the added cost from the sidechain transaction fees, which is why I said before it could make good sense for sidechain protocols to keep their own internal currencies that get their value from pure supply and demand. I think we will see both kinds of solutions and market forces will play a part in deciding which prevail.
    Of course, there is also the possibility of sidechain protocols that decide not to impose any fees of their own on top of the standard Bticoin transaction fees. However that would be the same as (and just as far fetched as) someone forking Counterparty or Mastercoin and making XCP or MSC unlimited in supply and freely available from a faucet.

    With all that said, there's one other big issue that I wish had been discussed in more detail in Episode 99, which is the problem of the security of sidechains. Even with the proposed merged mining solution, you have all sidechains at the mercy of the large pool operators, who will probably have their own vested interests in specific sidechains. That's definitely far from ideal.
    That's probably more of an answer than you were looking for, but it's a fascinating topic and I'd love to see what other people think.


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  • eddie

    Thank you for the in-depth response. While sidechains sound ideal in some aspects, their complexity is far from ideal. Namecoin is a complete alt coin that uses sha-256, the same as bitcoin. I believe it would be a struggle to get all the pools to adopt a bunch of sidechains unless there's already a good reason to.

    Your right in your explanation of moving assets from one data storage medium to another. It's definitely possible but seems like a lot of additional overhead. I believe protoshares and master coins both had a similar model where they bootstrapped into a asset that is more long term. I believe we will see many of the current models do the same until there is a feasible solution that is available at the beginning of new projects.

    For someone like me, an ideal asset based coin would be easily creatable and accessible through various interfaces in a number of high level scripting languages. It will be interesting to see how the bitcoin 2.0 software plays out. I spoke at a meetup about how governments might someday outsource part of their decision making using consensus based blockchain technology. I think I blew some people minds on what is possible.

    This topic of using applied cryptography to solve more problems than creating a low friction currency is important.

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  • ltbcoin

    Adam chose Counterparty after his analysis that it was the approach that's most ahead.  I tend to agree given that sidechains were only recently mentioned, and not even announced yet (somehow Adam was able to get this great "exclusive").  So until there's more substance to sidechains, it's just an idea that sounds good, but I hope they will execute and "succeed".

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  • puck2

    All of this is making me long for a show titled "Lets Talk Bitcoin 2.0" or something that would cover Mastercoin, Counterparty, Ethereum, NXT, etc.

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  • sull

    puck2 said: All of this is making me long for a show titled "Lets Talk Bitcoin 2.0" or something that would cover Mastercoin, Counterparty, Ethereum, NXT, etc.

    Everything is in some way connected to Bitcoin. So I don't see any issue in the name "Let's Talk Bitcoin". 

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  • sull

    ltbcoin said: Adam chose Counterparty after his analysis that it was the approach that's most ahead.  I tend to agree given that sidechains were only recently mentioned, and not even announced yet (somehow Adam was able to get this great "exclusive").  So until there's more substance to sidechains, it's just an idea that sounds good, but I hope they will execute and "succeed".

    In the spirit of experimentation, counterparty is probably fine.But when ready to take a serious stab at this and related concepts.... I would throw all efforts towards supporting Bitcoin as much as possible and that's why the future of bitcoin is and needs to be sidechains.
    I anticipate sidechains to become "real" sooner than most might think. 

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  • xiewenchong

    Looking forward to Ltbcoin launch.

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  • deweller
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  • sile16

    CounterParty was probably the right choice at the time. However, in the Asset Exchange market there are quite a few assets and much more volume on the NXT platform. It would probably be pretty painful to switch at this stage in the game but NXT while the asset exchange is technically slightly behind CP in functionality it seems to have more community and more inertia. But, from what I can tell everything that CP does today is on the roadmap for NXT.

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  • adam

    @sile16 CounterParty was probably the right choice at the time. However, in the Asset Exchange market there are quite a few assets and much more volume on the NXT platform. It would probably be pretty painful to switch at this stage in the game but NXT while the asset exchange is technically slightly behind CP in functionality it seems to have more community and more inertia. But, from what I can tell everything that CP does today is on the roadmap for NXT.

    Yeah, the reality is we are locked in with Counterparty for the time being - We've built infrastructure and tools around it.

    Even today though, I would not pick NXT because they don't allow me to send another asset to people who have my asset. We are heavily leveraging this feature and I think its one of the more important ones lacking from other platforms.

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