Wow very cool! I'm not sure how this all works yet as I am fairly new to all of this! But exciting non the less :)
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AUCTION VENDING MACHINES ARE NOW OPERATIONAL
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Posted on August 13, 2014 at 5:10 PM0 likes
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Posted on August 13, 2014 at 5:50 PM
@bcohen @deweller "key component of proxy bidding is secrecy. Because all blockchain transactions are public, that secrecy is lost when bidding Counterparty tokens."
yikes. I wonder if there is some way of mixing/scrambling and or splitting the bids so that the bid can't be figured out?
What if you send your LTBc to Melotic (or buy LTBc there), then send it back to a fresh address on your Counterwallet? You could send different quantities to and from, if you're very worried about people tracking the transactions, at staggered times.
Thanks Deweller for getting us up to speed on the details. Very helpful to understand how the bidding works, the delay (I had no clue), etc. Can you weigh in on the BTC that's also spent by the seller when setting up an auction? I think it would be great for transparency to understand where that goes (no hard feelings if some of it helps to pay for the work done to make these auctions happen).
(if you wonder why i edit my posts, it's due to lots of typos, etc.)
Last Edited: August 13, 2014 at 5:53 PM0 likes -
Posted on August 13, 2014 at 6:29 PM
@rob Can you weigh in on the BTC that's also spent by the seller when setting up an auction? I think it would be great for transparency to understand where that goes (no hard feelings if some of it helps to pay for the work done to make these auctions happen).
As of right now:
The 0.005 BTC fee paid by the seller goes to the LTB network (along with any received BTC dust).
The 1,000 LTBCOIN incentive paid by the seller goes to the winning bidder.
I would treat both of these statements as subject to change. It is in an experimental stage right now.
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Posted on August 13, 2014 at 6:54 PM
@Deweller what is the purpose of having 1000 LTBc go from the seller to the buyer? That seems bizarre, though I assume I'm missing some purpose. But if that's the way it works, guess we should tell bidders they get 1k LTBc refunded back to them, if they win the auction.
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Posted on August 13, 2014 at 7:25 PM
The idea is that the incentive covers the bounty paid by the top bidder (plus some), since he never gets paid a bounty by being outbid.
The whole purpose is to incentivize the highest bids possible.
This might end up going to the platform as a fee as well. It is all in an experimental stage right now.
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Posted on August 14, 2014 at 4:20 PM
Is a new counterparty currency created for each new token type? How is that managed. Is it something you have to do before you create the Auction?
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Posted on August 15, 2014 at 6:57 AM
@adam this is a fundamentally better way once we work out the bugs.
Why?
Tokens that can be redeemed for something valuable are better than the something valuable by itself because chances are pretty good the something valuable is difficult to buy/sell/trade. By making a token specific to that purpose, you imbue the value of the thing with the transmissability, verifiability, etc. of the bitcoin network onto whatever it is you're representing.
Not if I don't honour the backing. Of course this is 'the big problem', how to tie blockchain technology into the real world, but, well... it's a problem here too.
It gives you more options, which makes it more useful which makes it more valuable. You would acquire and hold the SPONSOR tokens because you think they will appreciate greater than alternatives so you might be betting my time appreciates in value more (whether because I become more high profile and thus the time more valuable or because the LTBc you sell it for will be worth more than the LTBc you bought on the market.
OK, for SPONSOR tokens this totally makes sense.
Someone who believes my time is undervalued can buy up my HOURCONSULT tokens then market my expertise and the value of my time to other people and sell the token to them at a profit, they redeem it with me, I don't have to care how it happened and I don't have to worry about if its a valid token or not. It exists, they have it, the only way that can happen is if someone gets them from me first so no problem.
I'd like to do this in future. When I mentioned the idea before it was kinda squashed because you didn't want your time floating in the wild for too long (which I totally understand).
Tokens give you options you dont otherwise have.
OK, I guess I just resent having to arbitrarily send back a token I had (literally) only just been sent in addition to the rigmarole of setting up the meeting in exactly the same way I would have to do without the token.
I think that having a token to redeem against an auction should be optional when creating the auction because it's just a faff and only stands for the thing in word only (and we're only using words to transact currently). i.e. Hey, I won, here is my address, please ship me a keychain, etc.
Tokens right now are more difficult to use than not, but thats because like the Auctioneer, these things don't exist until we discover "Oh that part kinda sucks" and fix it.
The meeting token is an excellent example. It was entirely manual (Manual auction on the forum of the non-transferrable right, manual meeting scheduling, etc.
Now its Automatic auction, manual meeting scheduling
Next it will be auto auction, auto scheduling - When you're ready to redeem you go to the coins page and either use it to book the appointment in an available slot with a calendar, then send your token to a specific address to lock in the appointment. If you dont want to redeem it, you'll be able to send the token to a vending machine that will offer it for sale at a fixed higher price to people who don't want to bother with auctions. So don't think about the auction like retail, it's wholesale.
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Posted on August 15, 2014 at 7:02 AM
@kylerk Is a new counterparty currency created for each new token type? How is that managed. Is it something you have to do before you create the Auction?
There are a few tokens we officialy support
LTBCOIN is our base token, given out through our rewards program and the "Ground floor' of all other token projects
SPONSOR is a token that can be redeemed for a 45 second sponsorship read on either Let's Talk Bitcoin! or Mad Money Machine. This is auctioned for LTBc, but can be resold by the winner of the token for whatever to whomever.
LTBDISPLAY gets you 1 week of display sponsorship on the front page of LTB, and will be auctioned for LTBc
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Posted on August 15, 2014 at 7:12 AM
There are a few tokens we officialy support
LTBCOIN is our base token, given out through our rewards program and the "Ground floor' of all other token projects
SPONSOR is a token that can be redeemed for a 45 second sponsorship read on either Let's Talk Bitcoin! or Mad Money Machine. This is auctioned for LTBc, but can be resold by the winner of the token for whatever to whomever.
LTBDISPLAY gets you 1 week of display sponsorship on the front page of LTB, and will be auctioned for LTBc
@adam - that is good information. I think it would be helpful to post a canonical list of official tokens at some point so people participating in auctions will know which tokens are officially supported. (Add that to the long list of to-do's :) )
For example, @davidareallen is auctioning LTBDISPLAY tokens right now. And they are valuable because they are officially supported regardless of who the seller is.
Last Edited: August 15, 2014 at 7:12 AM0 likes -
Posted on August 15, 2014 at 7:34 AM
Still haven't quite answer my question yet, just trying to understand the process.
Suppose I wanted to make an auction for kylerKoin. I would have to do the following steps.
-1. Go on counterwallet.co and create a new User Created Asset called kylerKoin.
-2. Go to auction.letstalkbitcoin.com/ create the auction.
-3. I haven't seen this part, but there must be a step where I send kylerKoin from my counterwallet.co into the auction as a sort of escrow? It isn't apparent on the "Create Auction" page.
-4. The auction happens and the kylerKoins get auto sent to the winner, and their payment gets auto sent to me.
Any steps I am missing?
Thanks
Last Edited: August 15, 2014 at 7:36 AM0 likes
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