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Technical Question: Should the website hold LTBcoin balances for users?

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• adam

  

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  I've never spoken with PhantomPhreak about anything, my contacts have been Cityglut and Xnova so I'm not sure whats up with that.  Please connect him with Devon ASAP

  Posted on May 15, 2014 at 2:30 AM
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• deweller

  

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  Here is some information about the configurable fees for counterparty.
  I just confirmed that the fees are configurable in the source code, so a custom implementation of counterpartyd with lower fees is feasible.
  MULTISIG = TrueREGULAR_DUST_SIZE = 5430        # TODO: This is just a guess. I got it down to 5530 satoshis.MULTISIG_DUST_SIZE = 5430 * 2   # TODO: This is just a guess. I did it down to 1.4x. (Used for regular outputs in multi?sig transactions, too.)OP_RETURN_VALUE = 0FEE_PER_KB = 20000              # Bitcoin Core default is 10000.
  Of course, lower dust size and lower fees per KB means longer confirmation times.
  
  Right now the fee is 14 cents per transaction.  Let's say we do a custom counterparty implementation and cut the fees in half.  A distribution of 5,000 payments will cost $350.  At 25% of the fees, that is still $173 per week for 5,000 payouts.
  

  Posted on May 15, 2014 at 2:44 AM
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• deweller

  

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  Here is a quick summary of what we know so far:

  Incoming Payments SummaryAfter exchanging emails with Alex at bitcredits.io, here is what bitcredits can provide:A hot web wallet of credits (let's call them LTBCOINCREDITS).
  The user funds his hot wallet with LTBCOINCREDITS by sending LTBCOIN (There is a 0.9% fee).Once funded, the LTBCOINCREDITS can only be used on the site for tipping/promotion/advertising.  They can't go back into Counterparty.The platform receives the spent LTBCOIN in a nightly batch from bitcredits.Distribution SummaryDue to the nature of the Counterparty system, distributing LTBCOIN to many recipients in one transaction is unlikely to be implemented, if not impossible.  There is definitely no support for it in the code now.  I'm of the opinion this won't be a viable option.
  
  
  So we are looking at a hot web-wallet system where users purchase LTBCOINCREDITS for incoming payment and a a few hundred dollars a week in BTC for slow-confirming distributions.
  Micropayments are challenging!
  Posted on May 15, 2014 at 3:07 AM
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• rotalumis

  

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  Let me give this some thought and we can talk during our hangout later today, Devon. In the meantime, I've introduced you to the XCP devs and started the discussion there with them via email.

  Posted on May 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM
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• deweller

  

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  In looking through their API, I see that bitcredits allows the filling of accounts with arbitrary amounts of credits.   Here is another possibility for distribution: Distribution Plan B Instead of issuing LTBCOIN directly on Counterparty every week, we issue LTBCOINCREDITS to a user's bitcredits.io wallet.
  
  If a user wants to withdrawal LTBCOIN, they can spend their LTBCOINCREDITS in order to transfer of LTBCOIN to a Counterparty address.
  Example: Say I am credited with 1000 LTBCOINCREDITS in the weekly distribution.
  I can then "purchase" a transfer out to Counterparty.  I spend 1000 LTBCOINCREDITS and I receive 995 LTBCOIN sent to my Counterparty wallet address. The other 5 LTBCOIN is paid to the platform to recover the transaction fees.
  
  

  Posted on May 15, 2014 at 2:09 PM
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• deweller

  

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  And to take it one step further - we don't even need to use bitcredits.io to fund someone's account.  We could create our own incoming gateway and fund credits to a user's account when we receive LTBCOIN sent to a specific address.
  If this were the case, then we would be using bitcredits for a database and web wallet, but no LTBCOIN would ever pass through their system.
  

  Posted on May 15, 2014 at 6:52 PM
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• deweller

  

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  After considering the security implications and the complexity involved here, I think this is too much to do for launch.
  Let's go with our original and safest plan and use the Counterparty blockchain to start.  After we see what the pain points are, we can then fix them with a new service.
  This is the MVP approach.  Launch - gather feedback - iterate.  I think this will best serve everyone.
  

  Posted on May 17, 2014 at 5:16 PM
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• DCBitcoin

  

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  I believe we should work to set up a way for the user to pay the fee, if any, for them to retrieve any awards of coin. Perhaps LTB could even ask for a certain amount of Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency to be sent and stored at LTB to cover future transaction costs of sending out awards. Perhaps there could even be a ledger for this "transaction fee" coin.

  Posted on July 11, 2014 at 8:04 PM
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• DCBitcoin

  

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  When in doubt, make a new type of coin! ;-)

  Posted on July 11, 2014 at 8:04 PM
  Last Edited: July 11, 2014 at 8:05 PM
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• ChainRadio

  

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  It would be nice to see some balances on here because from what I've read the fees on Counterparty are borderline stupid. 30 cents of BTC to just transfer between two users? It would be nice to have these transactions essentially take place off the chain as that fee is a major barrier for people who don't realize they need to move some BTC to Counterparty just to send a few LTBc to someone else.

  I understand the technical and security challenges this presents though.

  Posted on July 11, 2014 at 9:14 PM
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