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New York Regulation - What Does it Mean for LTBcoin?

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betabetabeta

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What does the New York regulation mean for LTBcoin?

It seems like LTBcoin would be under regulation based on what the regulations say. Does @Adam plan on complying with the regulation or just discluding NY based individuals from acquiring/using LTBcoin?

Posted on July 17, 2014 at 10:43 AM

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• adam

  

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  We have a rewards program, we don't sell it so it's not a security

  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 10:45 AM
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• adam

  

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  Basically if we're illegal so are all airline mile programs, grocery store programs, catalogue programs, etc.

  LTBcoin is marketing, not currency

  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 10:46 AM
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• betabetabeta

  

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  @adam Basically if we're illegal so are all airline mile programs, grocery store programs, catalogue programs, etc.

  LTBcoin is marketing, not currency

  Interesting. So LTBcoin is basically not an altcoin. At least as defined by NY.

  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 10:51 AM
  Last Edited: July 17, 2014 at 10:52 AM
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• adam

  

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  @betabetabeta

  @adam Basically if we're illegal so are all airline mile programs, grocery store programs, catalogue programs, etc.

  LTBcoin is marketing, not currency

  Interesting. So LTBcoin is basically not an altcoin. At least as defined by NY.

  Right, we don't have our own blockchain, we don't mine the token. The issue is people are using tokens as a vehicle to fundraise and represent the interest gained by fundraising. To classify LTB's non-fundraising rewards program in the same way would be like saying a doctors scrip is equivilent to a students homework because they're both on pieces of paper.

  User Created Assets are not altcoins, we only call it LTBcoin to represent its token nature. Coin is "better" than token, at least for now.

  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM
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• Mike

  

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  I would also add that LTB does not associate LTBc in any way to a value aside from itself. Others may do so, but it is not the intent of LTB. LTBc has value because the community has value, etc. Not because it is an actual investment in the website.

  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 1:57 PM
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• Matt

  

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  Definition of a virtual currency as defined by NY regulations is pretty broad.

  "Virtual Currency means any type of digital unit that is used as a medium of exchange or a form of digitally stored value or that is incorporated into payment system technology. Virtual Currency shall be broadly construed to include digital units of exchange that (i) have a centralized repository or administrator; (ii) are decentralized and have no centralized repository or administrator; or (iii) may be created or obtained by computing or manufacturing effort. Virtual Currency shall not be construed to include digital units that are used solely within online gaming platforms with no market or application outside of those gaming platforms, nor shall Virtual Currency be construed to include digital units that are used exclusively as part of a customer affinity or rewards program, and can be applied solely as payment for purchases with the issuer and/or other designated merchants, but cannot be converted into, or redeemed for, Fiat Currency;"

  SMH

  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 5:02 PM
  Last Edited: July 17, 2014 at 5:03 PM
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• shemnon

  

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  I think they are overreaching. If they regulated the fiat/crypto conversion for business done in NY and regulated custodial holding of bitcoin by NY businesses that would be fine. But what they are doing is (a) reaching into federal jurisdiction and (b) insuring only the big boys can play.

  After Gox I can see why they feel that some of the regulations must be done (auditability, records, cyber security) but this feels like an overton window type reach so when they amend the bitlicenses into what they really want one portion of the bitcoin community will say "now that sounds reasonable." another portion will be to tired to fight, and another portion will seem like anarchist anti-government extremists.

  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 5:32 PM
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• adam

  

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  @shemnon I think they are overreaching. If they regulated the fiat/crypto conversion for business done in NY and regulated custodial holding of bitcoin by NY businesses that would be fine. But what they are doing is (a) reaching into federal jurisdiction and (b) insuring only the big boys can play.

  After Gox I can see why they feel that some of the regulations must be done (auditability, records, cyber security) but this feels like an overton window type reach so when they amend the bitlicenses into what they really want one portion of the bitcoin community will say "now that sounds reasonable." another portion will be to tired to fight, and another portion will seem like anarchist anti-government extremists.

  ding ding ding, only the "extremists" won't be willing to "compromise" when the whole fight is about if they have the right to do this at all outside of NY

  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 6:04 PM
  Last Edited: July 17, 2014 at 6:04 PM
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• shemnon

  

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  ding ding ding, only the "extremists" won't be willing to "compromise" when the whole fight is about if they have the right to do this at all outside of NY

  Has anyone told the NYDFS about ethereum yet? The regulations read more to me like stocks and currency policy where some individual can intervene. But when there are ownership policies driven solely by algorithm, that may be at odds with NY state law things will get murky. Especially when someone who is beneficially or adversely interested in particular ethereum addresses/contract they can demonstrate control over or impact from decides to move to the state of New York just so they can get the benefit of their laws.

  And how about multi-sig wallets? and "gift" spam.

  This is feeling to me more like regulatory capture than ever.

  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 6:18 PM
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• BitCoinDaddy

  

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  This is so Cain and Abel. Cain killed Abel to cut into the perceived benefits of a virtual relationship. Anyway . . .

  BitCoin Foundation is working on creating some proposals. https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/07/17/early-returns-on-the-bitlicense-proposal-process/

  Tip Counter Wallet Address: 1KrWz8qkHL3YpUxb2gVwHDSatqn3hkkymF

  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 7:13 PM
  Last Edited: July 17, 2014 at 7:40 PM
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