The LTB Network Forum


Idea to Encouraging Tipping

Back to LTBcoin Talk

Jump to bottom
Pages: 12

Comments

deweller

I think something that would be valuable for the LTB network (LTB) would be to encourage tipping LTB coin (LTBc) as much as possible.

To do this, you could reward both tippers and recipients.

Give tip recipients a proportional share every month of the LTBc set aside for content publishers. The amount is proportional to that month's total tips. I believe you are also already planning to do this or something like it.

But you could also reward tippers with a bit of LTBc every month in proportion to what they tip. Think of it like a cash back or rewards program. Obviously, this would only be a small amount.

The purpose is to encourage a culture of tipping early and often. If that happens, then LTB coin and LTB the network will benefit greatly in the long run.

0 likes
  • deweller

    Ha. Just read the Proof of Tip thread. You were way ahead of me. :)

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • adam

    yes sir ;)

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • mmanvil74

    I fully support this idea, and the more I think about it, maybe tipping should be the sole proof of work used to distribute LTBcoin (both sending and receiving tips).  
    Proof of Publishing might not even be needed as a reward metric.  Once something is published (meets minimum editorial standards) let the tipping begin!  And let the network dole out each weekly distribution based on tips sent and received.

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • maciejolpinski

    mmanvil74 said: I fully support this idea, and the more I think about it, maybe tipping should be the sole proof of work used to distribute LTBcoin (both sending and receiving tips).  
    Proof of Publishing might not even be needed as a reward metric.  Once something is published (meets minimum editorial standards) let the tipping begin!  And let the network dole out each weekly distribution based on tips sent and received.

    +1
    Value is in the subjective perceptions of the audience and for the first time ever we can develop an online ranking system which is based on sacrificing a scarce resource (a digital token in this case). 

    Links, votes, shares, comments, posts etc can be easily inflated, bought on fiverr as they are abundant and cost almost zero. Of course we're a relatively small community and can put Proofs of Editorial Quality in place etc but I guess that's not the point here. 
    Each post/comment on LTBnetwork CMS could have a public-key address attached to it and be 'tippable' by the audience (in BTC and LTBcoin) in the same way reddit posts are 'votable'. But in this case it's not simply an up/down vote that anyone can click - you have to commit a scarce resource.
    This way we introduce a layer of 'value' metadata on top of content in addition to good old links and social shares (which imho are important but inferior to the primary metric of 'value')
    The most valuable content - all time, this week, today, fastest rising etc - now we have all sorts of ways to display this content. It's centralised in the LTBnetwork CMS but that's fine for the time being. 
    How people are rewarded then?
    It's a tricky question but let's look at fundamentals first
    1. Creators should benefit every time someone tips. But no tips = no money for creators as there's no subjective, perceived value in the content they've created among the community. 
    2. Curators who tip early benefit more than Curators who tip the same content later. (incentivises early curation, tipping and sharing to introduce new Curators to tip). 
    So the 2 simple rules would be:
    Creators: It pays to create content that people will find valuable and tip in the long run.Curators: It pays to discover early, tip and promote content that others will find valuable (and they'll tip and promote further).
    It's like deflationary model applied on a micro-scale to each piece of content. And each piece of content would be ranked, invested in and promoted by the community.

    Kinda like Coinmarketcap but for content :) (Coinmarketcap has issues so it's not the best example but you get the point)
    This would potentially allow Creators to create & benefit from content that has timeless value (i.e people still tip several months after the piece was initially published because they expect there are still others who'll do it after them). And encourage tippers to spread the word in their social networks and encourage others to join the game. 
    By doing this we could flip the media creation model from the sensational clicks & linkbaits to long term value.
    The hard part though is implementing this system with a user-generated asset because as the amount of content and investors rise, the amount of necessary transfers of value with each new money issuance cycle will grow exponentially.

    So maybe a simplified model of 'proof of tip' could work. 
    But I'm imagining a world where every comment, every idea, every video can compete for attention on the global attention marketplace. And because of token systems these ideas can make money for their creators and early curators who correctly predicted its future value.
    In any case, I consider LTBcoin an important step on the way there. 







    Permalink
    0 likes
  • adam

    @maciejolpinski 
    Yes!  I'm all about this, and then LTB can just be a front page for the best on the whole network - I have been calling this "The Huffington Post Model" in my head.
    I think you've articulated a very clear vision, and I would be interested in talking about this on the Saturday call as a way to move forward.  If you're reading this thread, please share your opinion because I like this quite a bit.

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • maciejolpinski

    @Adam,
    I'm glad you like the idea. Let me expand it a little bit then - I've been thinking about this A LOT lately (and falling behind on my more 'down to earth' projects but that's fine, singularity is now and I wanna be a part of it) and here are my 'bigger picture' thoughts on the topic.
    It will be a longer piece so I split it into two posts -  1. content protocol layer and 2. the content application layer.

    Part 1. The Protocol Layer - the 'Content Coin' 

    The objective, 'bitcoin-like' , trustless model of issuing & distributing tokens - let's call it a 'Content Coin'. No centralised subjectivity here, Proofs Of Value, 

    At its core it would be a 'colored coin' where color is the URL.

    So each address in this 'colored content-coin' has 'value' and 'URL' - like Namecoin but with an extra variable representing value. Potentially also an identity variable like keybase.io.

    Each piece of content would be then represented by 'URL' , 'Author's Identity' (but not necessarily real name) and 'Token Value'  

    The distribution method is a Proof-of-Tip / Timestamp model or 'Tip-As-Stake' model:

    Tipping buys you stake in a Content Coin address but DIVIDED by timestamp.

    Stake = Tip Amount / Timestamp * Timestamp Weight

    As time passes the same tip buys you a smaller stake in a Content Address. 

    Why divide by a weighted timestamp? 

    It's sole purpose is to reward early curators to discover, curate and promote content to others who might find it relevant AND are most likely to tip. 

    By adjusting the timestamp weight you could adjust the model to favour different types of content curation. i.e more weight on timestamp would be suitable for news sites where content lifecycle is short (yesterday's news value is 0), less weight on timestamp would be more suitable for long-form content with long content lifecycle (Shakespeare's literature is still valuable today). 

    New money that is issued goes to only addresses which increased their Total Value Tipped in the last block (proportionally to their Total Value Tipped) . But is distribution on the address level is in direct proportion to the stake each tipper holds. 

    This encourages early tipping of content with long term potential.  

    The model creates a new incentive scheme for content curators who have interest in showcasing this content to users who will potentially find valuable and tip. 

    To achieve the ideal 'trustlessness' and make it work , we would have to really rework the fabric of the internet because the ['URL','Value', 'Identity'] combination should happen on the lowest possible level of the network - I'm imagining something like MaidSafe + NameCoin + Content Coins. 

    For our early tests it could very well happen on the LTBcoin CMS level but then trust is centralised in this CMS system. 

    ContentCoin essentially is a Web 3.0 'value web' layer on top of Web 1.0 (documents and links) and Web 2.0 (user profiles and likes, shares, followers etc). 

    In reality, ContentCoin wouldn't be just one 'objective' layer, as each URL could be ranked multiple times by different ContentCoin communities operating on different ledgers/blockchains. The same blogpost /URL could be ranked very high in ContentCoin_News community but low in the ContentCoin_Literature community. 

    That's fine because content's value is subjective and ContentCoin would do exactly that - add a layer of 'measured subjectivity' to the objective (but as we know today - insufficient) measures of value on the web such as links, shares, followers. 

    Users would naturally only contribute to ContentCoin ledgers where they get maximum return on their time invested. That means ledgers where they can create or predict the future subjective value better and/or faster than others. In the ideal world, this model would self-organise creators/curators in multiple communities in the most efficient fashion.

    To be continued in the next post...

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • maciejolpinski

    Part 2. Application Layer - the Content Coin app ecosystem
    Once we have the objective protocol as a foundation of ranking the subjective value of the documents on the web,  we could then start building apps on top of that.
    Now the 'centralisation' comes into play as the app creator can design different sorts of 'Huffington Posts' , 'Reddits' etc. based on desired community requirements, type of content etc. 

    The app developer could tap into an established ContentCoin ledger and pull information from there or launch a community + application with a new ContentCoin ledger. ("build on Bitcoin with less control but established reputation and value or launch my own altcoin with lots of control but no value")
    In our own LTBcoin case, LTBCoin would operate on the dedicated LTBcoin ContentCoin ledger but the LTBCoin app would only surface content which meets the LTBCoin app quality criteria. So everyone could create new 'Content Entries' on the ledger but they wouldn't be visible in the app without approval (either by Editor In Chief or a trusted committee). Basically an AppStore model where everyone can build anything on the iOS platform, but to get visibility , distribution and downloads you need to meet Apple's criteria and get accepted into the App Store. 
    Content Ranking would be based either solely on the protocol Token Value variable (protocol level ranking) or with additional bells and whistles (application level ranking signals). To give you a comparison - it's like blockchain.info adding messages to Bitcoin transactions. A purely application level stuff but because of size of blockchain.info it is considered valuable and useful. 
    There are no 'Sponsor Slots' because there's not distinction between Advertising and Content. Everything is content but if it's not interesting to others you would have to tip it heavily out of your own pocket to keep it visible on top of 'Reddit-like' or 'Huffington Post-like' feed. 
    On the contrary, interesting commercial products would surface naturally to the top because people would tip them as 'content' - or maybe not ? 
    There's a lot more nuances to this topic but for now that's enough of my brain dump. I hope the community finds something valuable in this wall of text. 
    It's an extremely exciting and fascinating stuff to me but with so many unknowns that errors will have to be made :) Let's discuss it further! 

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • mmanvil74

    Good ideas @maciejolpinski.  As you point out, it's one thing to design and host the reward tracking system using a centralized CMS and quite a bit more advanced to try to do it in a fully decentralized way.  
    Personally I like the idea of incorporating an easy to use CMS based on existing technology for tracking the network tokens, so that new users aren't confronted with all of the challenges inherent with crypto from the moment they join the network.  
    I'd like to see LTB make it easy for new users to engage with the community and LTBcoins in an environment they are already accustomed to (like a reddit forum, or a typical online community site), with the only difference being that tips sent and received are quite a bit more "real" than upvotes on Reddit or likes on Facebook.  
    I think a lot of newbies get worried or discouraged when interacting with Bitcoin for the first time, so this type of CMS would give them a chance to play around with the functions and contribute to the network, earn LTBcoin, without even setting up a wallet (yet) until they are ready to make a withdrawal. 
    The CMS platform would not host any wallets but would have to be secure enough to accurately keep track of the network activity to be rewarded (in this case, tipping).  Only withdrawal and deposit orders from users within the CMS would be executed using the real LTBcoin user wallets.
    I imagine at some point this type of system could be built in a decentralized manner, but at this stage I think ease of use for the users, familiarity, and ease of development favors a centralized CMS platform for now.  I believe this is the type of CMS that Adam is working on setting up for LTB.

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • adam

    Yes, we are starting with a centralized  custom CMS and will pretty much immediately be starting work on the next platform, which will be basically the Huffington Post model with this crypto-bootstrapping applied.

    Permalink
    0 likes
  • maciejolpinski
    Permalink
    0 likes
Jump to top
Pages: 12

Post Reply

Please Login to post a reply to this thread.

© Copyright 2013–2016 The LTB Network. All rights reserved .