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Doge XBC coin (something)

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flyingtriangle

Adam, I listened to the latest podcast about Doge XBC coin (didn't catch the right name I think, the charity or burn coin thing you know what I mean). And I thought that perhaps if you had missed it, I would bring the following to your attention:

"The top 3 Litecoin pools can easily pull off a 51% attack on the Dogecoin network. In a few weeks, the top 6 Litecoin pools can easily do it." (http://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/comments/2b11po/what_is_dev_team_going_do_about_dogecoins/)

Note, if there is an incentive to kill Doge for scrypt miners, then what happens if you also have a lot of other coins built on top of it?

Anyway, I think could head down a slippery slope. I'm in the camp of "there is no such thing as a free lunch". The reason fee's etc are so low in Doge is because it is being subsidized. If the economics doesn't make sense it can only mean two things: 1) the protocol changes or 2) the network dies. This implies that either coins built on top of Doge either will have to adapt or die.

This brings me to another topic... perhaps LTBCoin could be this kind of coin, that migrates to new networks, as the old networks rises their fees or dies. LTBCoin could be this kind of parasitic coin that manifests the tragedy of the commons. It would be interesting.

In the end, what we have here is that all the coins on top of a another coin, has to have an economic model that works with the coins they are riding on, or else become parasitic.

What else do we have... mastercoin, nah same thing, OT? Nah, Open Transaction is not a good way of doing stores of value (its pure contracts thing). Maybe etherium? Don't know haven't thought about it.

Anyway, I won't bore you with this. There are other people who have already been critical towards counterparty and predicted the kind of outcome that you are now experiencing. I could point you to these discussions if you are interested.

I like what you are doing with LTBCoin. I like it very much and want to see it succeed. It's the future I'm sure of it!

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  • adam

    Thanks for your comment - I had a similar conversation with Tim Swanson earlier today I'll share here

    Tim Swanson: bro

    Tim Swanson: Dogeparty is open to attack

    Tim Swanson: when dogecoin gets hit by a 51% attack

    Tim Swanson: it'll impact XDP

    Adam B. Levine: yep

    Adam B. Levine: my thesis is that we can generate meaningful miner support behind it with a token layer on top

    Adam B. Levine: it provides a reason where otherwise there isn't one

    Tim Swanson: but miners dont get paid any extra for that

    Adam B. Levine: worst case we'll create a token on dogeparty that is honored in some way by the platform or surrounding services that are given to miners in place of doge

    Adam B. Levine: ;)

    Tim Swanson: there is nothing in the protocol to change the coinbase

    Adam B. Levine: we don't need to

    Adam B. Levine: its just about what is it good for

    Adam B. Levine: again, this could fail

    Tim Swanson: then there is no incentive to burn/create more hashrate

    Adam B. Levine: except the one I just told you

    Tim Swanson: haha : )

    Tim Swanson: okay

    Tim Swanson: well

    Tim Swanson: i like the effort

    Tim Swanson: i will cite it in my book (i'm compiling a new book)

    Adam B. Levine: where we create a token that is valued within the ecosystem we create, that is rewarded to miners based on hash rate or some trackable metric, blocks found probably

    Adam B. Levine: its a problem we eventaully have to solve with bitcoin

    Adam B. Levine: I picked doge because its at end of life

    Adam B. Levine: so if we can revive it with this, it will say something about the value of it

    Adam B. Levine: :)

    Adam B. Levine: can't wait to read it

    Adam B. Levine: you know me Tim, I just want to try all the things.

    Adam B. Levine: I appreciate the bro-vice though :)

    Tim Swanson: sure, you're a maker/doer

    Tim Swanson: haha no prob

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    2 likes
  • CheesyCharlie33

    @adam Thanks for your comment - I had a similar conversation with Tim Swanson earlier today I'll share here

    Tim Swanson: bro

    Tim Swanson: Dogeparty is open to attack

    Tim Swanson: when dogecoin gets hit by a 51% attack

    Tim Swanson: it'll impact XDP

    Adam B. Levine: yep

    Adam B. Levine: my thesis is that we can generate meaningful miner support behind it with a token layer on top

    Adam B. Levine: it provides a reason where otherwise there isn't one

    Tim Swanson: but miners dont get paid any extra for that

    Adam B. Levine: worst case we'll create a token on dogeparty that is honored in some way by the platform or surrounding services that are given to miners in place of doge

    Adam B. Levine: ;)

    Tim Swanson: there is nothing in the protocol to change the coinbase

    Adam B. Levine: we don't need to

    Adam B. Levine: its just about what is it good for

    Adam B. Levine: again, this could fail

    Tim Swanson: then there is no incentive to burn/create more hashrate

    Adam B. Levine: except the one I just told you

    Tim Swanson: haha : )

    Tim Swanson: okay

    Tim Swanson: well

    Tim Swanson: i like the effort

    Tim Swanson: i will cite it in my book (i'm compiling a new book)

    Adam B. Levine: where we create a token that is valued within the ecosystem we create, that is rewarded to miners based on hash rate or some trackable metric, blocks found probably

    Adam B. Levine: its a problem we eventaully have to solve with bitcoin

    Adam B. Levine: I picked doge because its at end of life

    Adam B. Levine: so if we can revive it with this, it will say something about the value of it

    Adam B. Levine: :)

    Adam B. Levine: can't wait to read it

    Adam B. Levine: you know me Tim, I just want to try all the things.

    Adam B. Levine: I appreciate the bro-vice though :)

    Tim Swanson: sure, you're a maker/doer

    Tim Swanson: haha no prob

    Thanks for sharing!

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    0 likes
  • Mike

    I think one thing to consider is that people want Doge to succeed. They want it to succeed for the same reasons that it was succeeding in the first place. The issue is that it has become no longer economically feasible/advantageous to support the Doge network for miners or even just regular users to become miners.

    I think that adding this extra layer may help to prompt the return of miners, if there is an economic reward for doing so. As mentioned, this may require the creation of a new asset on top of Dogeparty that rewards miners based on their contributions. However, I am not exactly sure how one would give an asset like that sustainable value. One of the issues with Dogecoin that I've heard, is that so many coins were issued in such a hurry that the block reward halvings are carving out the majority of miner's profits too quickly. So if you were to try and issue an asset that essentially gave extra Dogecoins out, you would run into the same issues not too far into the future.

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    1 like
  • William

    So, how would it work to migrate LTBC from XCP to XDP? Would it be automated? Would we have to send to an exit address? It makes me think of scifi scenarios in which DACs autonomously jump from blockchain to blockchain in order to perpetuate themselves when their current blockchain is under threat.

    Also makes me wonder about backups. Is there a backup of LTBCOIN that could come into play if BTC was compromised? Or, if bitcoin fails, does LTBcoin fail as well?

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  • cracker

    My worry would be that LTBcoin would get somewhat price pegged to Doge itself. (Which is a good or bad thing depending how much you believe in Doge, I personally think it's on a downtrend). If you look at Nxt and its assets, you will see what I am talking about.

    However as Adam has mentioned, it would be pretty cool to see the effect that LTBcoin could have on Doge, maybe LTBcoin could eventually dictate the price of Doge!

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    2 likes
  • JayeK

    @cracker My worry would be that LTBcoin would get somewhat price pegged to Doge itself. (Which is a good or bad thing depending how much you believe in Doge, I personally think it's on a downtrend). If you look at Nxt and its assets, you will see what I am talking about.

    However as Adam has mentioned, it would be pretty cool to see the effect that LTBcoin could have on Doge, maybe LTBcoin could eventually dictate the price of Doge!

    LTBcoin and XDP are very separate. :)

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    1 like
  • Matt

    I hope to see Dogecoin revive... They really have a great community and it's an excellent path to get people to start using crypto. The doge community is great at welcoming new users into crypto and they've done a great job with raising donations. Proof of Charity all the way...

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    1 like
  • dpc

    Community support does not equal mining support. Bringing a loving community of shibes isn't going to magically bring miners. Miners, like great whites, are heartless. They mine for profits. Part of me appreciates that because their motives are clear and their actions are predictable. If doge mining profits go up to keep enough miners to keep the network safe then fees would also go up for transactions. Are there enough ltb/dogeparty transaction fees to lure in miners?

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  • flyingtriangle

    I have submitted a post about using Peershares, which is a technology that is using Proof-of-Stake as implemented in Peercoin (Peershares is a Peercoin fork). This solves the issue with "not enough hashing-power". The thread can be found here: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/forum/post/ltbcoin-on-peershares

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