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optictopic

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I signed up for the Liberty.me social network when it began and I am happy I did. There are regular Q&A classes where you can interact with people like Elizabeth Ploshay, Jeffery Tucker (the founder) and Roger Ver which I did last night. Ver was in Tokyo where he gave a bitcoin presentation targeted at bitcoin newbies. I found it interesting to hear Vers backstory and the ideology that drives his btc passion. There are loads of downloadable reading materials that is included in the cost of the monthly subscription. Of course they accept/prefer bitcoin. Check it out, you wont be disappointed.

Posted on August 10, 2014 at 10:09 AM
Last Edited: August 10, 2014 at 11:42 AM

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• optictopic

  

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  Let us know your experience.

  Posted on August 10, 2014 at 11:40 AM
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• MikeJohnson

  

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  I am also interested to hear about how the site is from some of the members here.

  I have been looking at it but just haven't pulled the trigger on it just yet. I saw that Roger Ver is literally paying people to join it though recently.

  Posted on August 10, 2014 at 6:24 PM
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• optictopic

  

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  Roger was offering a dollars worth of btc to anyone who hadn't yet tasted bitcoin. Where did you hear he was paying people to join liberty.me?

  Posted on August 10, 2014 at 7:52 PM
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• melisande

  

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  Am interested to know the site and your experience in it.

  Posted on August 13, 2014 at 2:55 AM
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• page

  

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  I am not really interested in their classroom stuff, plus, you can learn everything you want elsewhere on the internet for free and in your own time. Some people on the /r/ancap sub have said it's not so great too. Besides, I am most interested in egoism now anyway!

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_Max_Stirner

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarch_%28sovereign_individual%29

  Posted on August 13, 2014 at 3:26 AM
  Last Edited: August 13, 2014 at 3:28 AM
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• optictopic

  

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  It's a social network. If one is more happy with the social network of irc, facebook, bbs etc then great. I am new to the concepts of ancap (anarcho-capitalism) and from what I've learned so far I can say that my beliefs are closely aligned with the nonaggression capitalist principle within that ideology. The fact that it cost money to access the full content of Liberty.me seems shocking in a time when everything online seems like its free. In the case of most social networks it is forgotten that the reason it is free is because you are the product i.e. your personal information is mined and sold. In the case of Liberty.me there is plenty of value, both in content provided (videos and literature) and forums of likeminded individuals with similar goals. Yes, much of the info on Liberty.me can be found for free if you know what you are looking for. But many of the topics, books and videos about free markets and true liberal concepts within Liberty.me have been compiled in a way that makes for quick reference. The fact that it costs to participates cuts out most if not all annoying trollers. So in the end as with anything, value is subjective. I believe that there is more than enough value in this social network to warrant more than a few mBTC each month.
  You said "Besides, I am most interested in egoism now anyway!" I'm not sure what you meant.

  Posted on August 13, 2014 at 11:06 AM
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  @optictopic It's a social network. If one is more happy with the social network of irc, facebook, bbs etc then great. I am new to the concepts of ancap (anarcho-capitalism) and from what I've learned so far I can say that my beliefs are closely aligned with the nonaggression capitalist principle within that ideology. The fact that it cost money to access the full content of Liberty.me seems shocking in a time when everything online seems like its free. In the case of most social networks it is forgotten that the reason it is free is because you are the product i.e. your personal information is mined and sold. In the case of Liberty.me there is plenty of value, both in content provided (videos and literature) and forums of likeminded individuals with similar goals. Yes, much of the info on Liberty.me can be found for free if you know what you are looking for. But many of the topics, books and videos about free markets and true liberal concepts within Liberty.me have been compiled in a way that makes for quick reference. The fact that it costs to participates cuts out most if not all annoying trollers. So in the end as with anything, value is subjective. I believe that there is more than enough value in this social network to warrant more than a few mBTC each month.

  If you are new to the ideas of anarcho-capitalism then the site will probably be great for you. I would never have got to egoism without anarcho-capitalism and particularly the Austrian ideas on subjectivism.

  You said "Besides, I am most interested in egoism now anyway!" I'm not sure what you meant.

  The egoist idea I mentioned is a radical individualist position that completely strips away all alienating forces that subject the conscious self. It finds liberty, or freedom, not through some kind of external emancipation, but from your self. It is a lot more powerful.

  So, the anarchist has an idea in his head, a utopian ideal about anarchism that includes ideas about what property is and moral actions that derive from those property rights - the nonaggression principle.

  Those beliefs about the NAP put the individual in direct opposition to the state; the ideas capture the anarchist and impels him to action.

  The egoist would say the NAP and property rights are fixed utopian ideals that are no more valid than any other religious belief, compelling the individuals, that hold them true, to serve them as a greater cause than the self.

  In short, I am a moral nihilist, that doesn't recognise any authority as legitimate other than my self. I don't put myself in opposition to anything as I don't view these external things as legitimate in the first place. That would include things like - the state, religion, the nation, the law, morality, property, societal norms etc they are all just ideas that live in peoples heads, concepts that if viewed as real subject you for "their" ends.

  There are some egoists, of different varieties, I am a Stirnerite, on the ancap reddit sub if you are ever interested -

  Here's a recent thread about it, I just explained my ideas as I see them others have other ideas. There is some friction between the egoists and NAPers!

  http://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/2cqqdi/eli5_egoism_moral_nihilism_how_they_contrast_with/

  http://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/search?q=egoism&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all

  Posted on August 13, 2014 at 3:59 PM
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• optictopic

  

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  Thanks for the summary explanation. I find the concept intriguing. If you don't mind could you elaborate on the differentiation of Stirnerite. Is defining ones self as a moral nihilist intrinsic to the acceptance of Stirnerite Egoism as ones belief? This could quickly turn into an epistemology thread.

  Posted on August 14, 2014 at 8:06 AM
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  @optictopic

  I am not a great philosopher, as I went from being an ancap to egoist without ever having a great interest in philosophy until recently, but I'll tell you what I know.

  Max Stirner was part of a group of philosophers known as The Young Hegelians. Their main concern was to free the self conscious from the tyranny of the state and religion. The dominating idea that came from them was that the essence of God was something really within Man; Man was divine, not God.

  From those ideas about Man we get things like social liberalism - rule by society (Marx was part of the group and he used his ideas about humanity to get to Marxism), political liberalism - equal rights, democracy etc These are the prevailing ideas of modernity.

  Max Stirner was in direct opposition to there being an essence within Man, he called that essence a ghost, or a spook, something that didn't really exist and an idea that did nothing to free the individual from alienation, but just constructed new ideals and frameworks for people to act within and subject themselves to.

  Stirner pointed out that the causes of society, the good cause, the religious cause, the cause of the nation, the King, etc were all egoistic causes. Causes that serve themselves; so he asked why he should serve them and why not serve his own cause, a purely egoistic cause.

  So, to morality. All morality is, is a set of rules that govern interpersonal actions - what is good, right etc How one ought to act. Something external that compels you to act - God, natural law, social norms etc None of those things exist outside people's heads, there is nothing absolute about them at all, thus morality is just a human construct that alienates the self; a myth, hence moral nihilism!

  A moral nihilist just looks at his actions as either suitable to his ends, as he sees fit, or not suitable to his ends; he lives in the world of the factual with his own personal values.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_nihilism

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmGL8NQ519Q

  Here is an interview with the Stirnerite SE Parker. I have no idea what is going on at the start of the video!

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSZJgkMQmcc

  All the ancap egoists are moral nihilists, most are Nietzschean egoists though, not Stirnerites, some come from the Austrian school and are Misesian utilitarians.

  Here's a thread about moral nihilism and Misesian utilitarianism

  http://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/1z1x03/to_misesian_utilitarians_why_shouldnt_i_steal/

  I should mention Ernst Junger too, he's the guy in my avatar. He wrote a novel, Eumeswil on the topic of Stirnerite egoism which he called being an anarch -

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarch_%28sovereign_individual%29

  https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/494183-eumeswil

  BTW put @page in your reply so I get a notification.

  Posted on August 14, 2014 at 11:23 AM
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• optictopic

  

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  Thanks again for the insight. I look for forward to exploring these links. My basic philosophy could be summed up with a handful of cliche's like, the more I learn the less I know, treat others the way you want to be treated yada yada yada. Unlike my staunch atheist friends I firmly believe that just because I haven't seen something it doesn't mean it does not exist (guess thats agnostic). That does not mean I believe in things I have never seen but that I reserve judgement on the unexplored and metaphysical. If I based my life on science and facts alone I think I would be missing out on the magic of existence. Last year a friend showed me how to dowse for water, guess what, it works! I don't know how, there are no working scientific explanations but that doesn't change the fact that it works, but it doesn't work for everybody. I guess that is the bottom line, what works for one may not work for another.

  Posted on August 15, 2014 at 7:50 AM
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