The LTB Network Forum

Bryce Weiner tips ISIS

Back to General

Comments

pooktwo

Offline
Posts: 792
Location: Indianapolis

So I just read this article and this is obviously a developing story, but Bryce Weiner sent a changetip of $1 in BTC donation to ISIS in a sarcastic tone. Though it was sarcastic, why in the world would he do a stupid thing like this? Nothing good can come of that.

http://www.coindesk.com/changetip-user-banned-isis/

Here is the reddit conversation

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2xsg9l/pretty_funny_fake_blockchain_expert_analyst_bruce/

One thing is for certain, if you are associated with this guy, its probably good to stay away. For those of you just curious to see the tweet, here it is:

Posted on March 4, 2015 at 12:02 PM
Last Edited: March 6, 2015 at 4:06 PM

0 likes

• page

  

  Offline
  Posts: 423

  I agree with the first reddit comments. Sending a tiny amount of BTC to ISIS is hardly the crime of the century and it certainly is no reason to have an account suspended. Especially while the ISIS account is still active.

  Totalitarian Humanism is by far the greatest problem facing the West at this current time and these are Ideals that come from within; a moral decay so pervasive and unseen that no one blinks when the ISIS tweeter account remains active while the Bryce Weiner is no more.

  http://attackthesystem.com/the-ideology-of-totalitarian-humanism/

  EDIT: If people find Weiner's (never heard of the guy personally so I don't know if that's a serious name) actions offensive then he can suffer the public consequences. What is wrong is to claim Free Speech with one hand while simultaneously applying censorship with the other. The same Free Speech and censorship that sees no problem with allowing the ISIS account to function in the first place.

  I did go on a huge rant about moral decay in the West, but I decided to delete it! :P It's in Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals if you want to read about it.

  Posted on March 4, 2015 at 1:50 PM
  Last Edited: March 4, 2015 at 2:28 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• pooktwo

  

  Offline
  Posts: 792
  Location: Indianapolis

  @page I agree with the first reddit comments. Sending a tiny amount of BTC to ISIS is hardly the crime of the century and it certainly is no reason to have an account suspended. Especially while the ISIS account is still active.

  Totalitarian Humanism is by far the greatest problem facing the West at this current time and these are Ideals that come from within; a moral decay so pervasive and unseen that no one blinks when the ISIS tweeter account remains active while the Bryce Weiner is no more.

  http://attackthesystem.com/the-ideology-of-totalitarian-humanism/

  EDIT: If people find Weiner's (never heard of the guy personally so I don't know if that's a serious name) actions offensive then he can suffer the public consequences. What is wrong is to claim Free Speech with one hand while simultaneously applying censorship with the other. The same Free Speech and censorship that sees no problem with allowing the ISIS account to function in the first place.

  I did go on a huge rant about moral decay in the West, but I decided to delete it! :P It's in Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals if you want to read about it.

  I am all for free speech and would never censor anyone, but there is a difference between saying something, and giving money to ISIS. Now, it is clear in the tweet that he is being sarcastic, but there is no better way to attract the feds to your doorstep and trolls to forums then to tip ISIS on twitter.

  It was a bold joke in his career that will not pay off.

  Posted on March 4, 2015 at 4:10 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• edd

  

  Offline
  Posts: 60
  Location: San Antonio, Texas

  I find myself agreeing with both of the posts above. What he did was just about the most troll-like thing I've seen but he has the right to be a troll if he wishes.

  Did his tweet and tip hurt anyone? No.
  Did he make any kind of point? I don't see it.
  Did he earn any respect from anyone? Very little from very few, if any.
  Will he regret it? Probably. I'm baffled as to what he thought he might gain from it in relation to what he might lose.

  Posted on March 4, 2015 at 5:16 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• page

  

  Offline
  Posts: 423

  @pooktwo

  I am all for free speech and would never censor anyone, but there is a difference between saying something, and giving money to ISIS.

  Right, we are using different definitions for Free Speech -

  Freedom of speech is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas. The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech

  I am thinking more in terms of freedom of expression.

  Regardless of Free Speech I don't have a moral problem with ISIS using BTC, as over the long term there's no way to determine the economic outcomes. I don't find moral arguments persuasive at all, as they're generally just going to be some unthought through argument made after an initial instinctive judgement i.e. I don't like ISIS therefore I am not going support anything about them (even if the consequences might be favourable for me.)

  Posted on March 4, 2015 at 5:20 PM
  Last Edited: March 4, 2015 at 5:24 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• page

  

  Offline
  Posts: 423

  So, that tip could have caught the attention of an ISIS member that does actually start the process for ISIS using BTC. That process might weaken the US government long term, meaning the US will lose influence in the Middle East resulting in ISIS not needing to attack the West. ISIS could the begin to lose power as the people rise up to overthrow them and that could begin the process of a more settled middle east. Meanwhile BTC BOOMS!!! as western government's grip on power starts to wane.

  I am just making that stuff up, but my point stands - there's no reason to not support ISIS using BTC on moral grounds alone when the overcome is completely unknown.

  Posted on March 4, 2015 at 5:35 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• pooktwo

  

  Offline
  Posts: 792
  Location: Indianapolis

  @page So, that tip could have caught the attention of an ISIS member that does actually start the process for ISIS using BTC. That process might weaken the US government long term, meaning the US will lose influence in the Middle East resulting in ISIS not needing to attack the West. ISIS could the begin to lose power as the people rise up to overthrow them and that could begin the process of a more settled middle east. Meanwhile BTC BOOMS!!! as western government's grip on power starts to wane.

  I am just making that stuff up, but my point stands - there's no reason to not support ISIS using BTC on moral grounds alone when the overcome is completely unknown.

  Well here is the thing, the US government absolutely oversteps their boundaries on almost everything, at home and abroad. And even if it is true that its because of the US that ISIS even exists, there is still a condition not many take into account. Just like the Germans before WWII, that area is VERY VERY poor. When people are poor and they are ignored in the world and they have nothing, they can mob together and do terrible things. ISIS is the result of economic crisis just like the Nazis had been. And since they do not have access to the internet like we all do, many of them still blindly follow radical religious beliefs because thats all they know, and for them its something rather than nothing.

  So do i think the US government could be to blame for some of the status over there, absolutely.

  Does that justify ISIS actions, absolutely not.

  Radical religion is dangerous, and its even more dangerous when your followers have nothing. So i do not agree that Bryce should have given $1 even as a joke, it is making a bad situation even worse.

  Posted on March 4, 2015 at 5:52 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• pooktwo

  

  Offline
  Posts: 792
  Location: Indianapolis

  @page So, that tip could have caught the attention of an ISIS member that does actually start the process for ISIS using BTC. That process might weaken the US government long term, meaning the US will lose influence in the Middle East resulting in ISIS not needing to attack the West. ISIS could the begin to lose power as the people rise up to overthrow them and that could begin the process of a more settled middle east. Meanwhile BTC BOOMS!!! as western government's grip on power starts to wane.

  I am just making that stuff up, but my point stands - there's no reason to not support ISIS using BTC on moral grounds alone when the overcome is completely unknown.

  The history of religious conflict over there is longer than can be discussed here on this forum. If the US was completely gone from that area, i assure you problems would still very much exists.

  Why not donate to relief funds fighting corruption over there rather than funding a corrupt organization that was created from a corrupt organization?

  Did that last sentence make sense?

  Posted on March 4, 2015 at 5:56 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• adam

  

  Offline
  Posts: 1980
  Location: California, USA

  @edd I find myself agreeing with both of the posts above. What he did was just about the most troll-like thing I've seen but he has the right to be a troll if he wishes.

  Did his tweet and tip hurt anyone? No.

  this is a question of degrees, given the way twitter has been handling "terrorism" it could be argued in the status quote that in fact just making a tweet supportive of isis is illegal in the united states. Does it violate free speech rights and encourage censorship? Well yeah, but that's the point. They're censoring the obviously OMFG SO BAD IT IS OBVIOUS stuff so that when they expand their definitions it's not coming out of nowhere, but is rather an obvious and "logical" progression.

  Did he make any kind of point? I don't see it.

  I think his point was that you can't actually enforce any of the sanctions even against a stateless state, so if you can't enforce something why have it be a rule?

  He found out that actually they can enforce it, just not pre-emptively and not the government directly. Instead they have a relationship with twitter where if someone does something on twitter, they punish twitter. So twitter, not wanting to be punished pro-actively censors things that might get them in trouble.

  The gov doesn't even need to ask, it just happens.

  Did he earn any respect from anyone? Very little from very few, if any.

  Bryce doesn't seem to be trying to make friends, he just likes to call out bullshit and doesn't

  Will he regret it? Probably. I'm baffled as to what he thought he might gain from it in relation to what he might lose.

  Word to that. In my experiance antagonistic people like to antagonize.

  Posted on March 5, 2015 at 5:45 AM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• Rob

  

  Offline
  Posts: 604
  Location: California

  I've heard a few podcasts with Bryce and follow him on Twitter. He makes a lot of strong statements that aren't always popular. I've heard him diss Bitcoin and say what a mistake Patrick Byrne made by deciding to use Counterparty to power Medici (maybe Patrick ended up agreeing?). Anyway, not sure what to say about the tip to ISIS, but I was interested to see his name pop up here. His sometimes extreme opinions have made me think he might be an interesting podcast guest for the LTB audience.

  Posted on March 5, 2015 at 7:45 PM
  Permalink
  0 likes
• pooktwo

  

  Offline
  Posts: 792
  Location: Indianapolis

  @rob I've heard a few podcasts with Bryce and follow him on Twitter. He makes a lot of strong statements that aren't always popular. I've heard him diss Bitcoin and say what a mistake Patrick Byrne made by deciding to use Counterparty to power Medici (maybe Patrick ended up agreeing?). Anyway, not sure what to say about the tip to ISIS, but I was interested to see his name pop up here. His sometimes extreme opinions have made me think he might be an interesting podcast guest for the LTB audience.

  He is indeed an interesting fellow and not very nice :( But i cant deny that he is smart, whether if one agrees with him or not.

  And it is a touchy subject on if this was freedom of speech or not as it deals with an organization (ISIS) that does some terrible things in the middle east. But the argument of this being applied to something like supporting snowden is valid, as someone could get in the same amount of trouble.

  So i guess here is my conclusion to this: Bitcoin is great because we can fund people like snowden without the governments approval or even knowledge and avoid the controversy, the downside is organizations like ISIS can share this same benefit, just like child molesters use the internet for sex trafficking. So it would not be fair to shutdown the internet or bitcoin (if you even could) just because of a few bad apples.

  However, if you openly donate to ISIS or a child molester you would have to pay the price because you have openly done so and made yourself a target as it is provable that you have done so. so if you do not punish someone for doing something like this, then what is to stop someone for sarcastically donating $1000 to ISIS and claiming free speech? $1 wont go very far, but $1000 would

  Just like every good revolution throughout history, for us to support someone like snowden, or to get the US government to stay out of our private lives, major actions (like financial support) must be done from the shadows and not in the open, but openly talking about change and abuse of power can continue to be done in the open to spread the ideals of freedom to the masses. People would get behind a movement that actually does things to make change happen, not someone who makes fun of the system in an unproductive way.

  Though this last paragraph has some issues within itself, i would love to keep this conversation going because there is indeed problems to both sides of the argument

  Posted on March 6, 2015 at 1:04 AM
  Permalink
  1 like

Post Reply